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Post by Captain T'Pang on Jan 2, 2012 21:23:07 GMT -5
Well, I think that was the point. Starfleet technology had advanced to the point where they basically said "fly here", whereas the TOS crew actually had to plot the course, accounting for obstacles, anomalies, fuel consumption, speed, etc. It's very similar to modern aircraft. Fighter aircraft required a single pilot, who had to juggle several tasks, including his flight plan (which had to be adjusted on the fly at times). Some aircraft lessened the stress on the pilot by adding a second occupant. This person filled a few different roles, ranging from radar operator, spotter, bombadier, etc. With the F-22, however, the pilot basically tells the plane where he wants to go. Sometimes not even that much. In combat, the Raptor actually decides what weapons are best for the situation, and although the pilot can make the choice himself, all he's required to do is pull the trigger. By the same token, Starfleet technology should have advanced to the point where the helmsman basically types in a destination, and the ship's computer would make all necessary calculations. You may recall that Jake Sisko was able to plot a course for the runabout in "Jem'hadar" without any prior flight training, and fly that course himself. Like I stated the story is that technology has made the job so easy that it isn't worth its own postition any more. Space travel is so easy its like driving to the corner grocery store. No more highly trained astronauts, just people at the wheel of the family stationwagon. Not to mention the fact that for some reason in the TOS era all this computer automation didn't exist, then by the TNG era it all was computerized. Which had more to do witht he limited concept of the potential of computers in the 1960's that anything. The difference was a real world increase in technology (the PC revolution.) Besides the issue is never what to do when the technology is working properly, it what do you do when it fails. I am pretty sure Jake would have been in a pickle if the navigation computer had failed. GPS and inertial navigation have made navigation as easy as telling a computer where you want to go. But that technology is not fool proof, it never is. www.f-22raptor.com/news_view.php?nid=267Now picture this happening at the edge of known space with no tanker to follow back home. You had better hope someone of board knows how to plot a course without the navigational computer.
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Post by Captain Erys Murai on Jan 2, 2012 21:28:12 GMT -5
Well yes. If Starfleet training is anything like my college courses were, then they'd be required to learn how to do course calculations by hand before they were allowed to use a helm console. But as a general rule, it would only require one person.
You may recall that your exact scenario happened to the Defiant. Eddington planted a virus that wiped their computer. The Defiant had to be towed back to DS9 because it literally could not function at all.
To Brian, I suppose if a captain wanted to separate the two, that's up to the captain. But as a tactical officer IC, I can tell you that Erys would be rather annoyed / upset if half my job was taken away from her.
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Post by quinn6352 on Jan 2, 2012 21:39:36 GMT -5
To Brian, I suppose if a captain wanted to separate the two, that's up to the captain. But as a tactical officer IC, I can tell you that Erys would be rather annoyed / upset if half my job was taken away from her. I hear ya. And I agree. But, as i said, it depends on the captain's preference. Also, the availabilty of officers might also be a factor. I know via the Titan books, that titan's original Chief Tact/Security had to seperate his responsabilties to make room for Tuvok who came on as Second Officer. But it was a discussed thing, and they both mutually agreed to the seperation and they both help each other when needed and act as a team.
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Post by Captain T'Pang on Jan 2, 2012 21:48:59 GMT -5
Well, when it comes to helm. I agree with Erys. they should be combined. The ship does most of the navigating using advanced sensors and pre defined course layouts. basicaly, during warp, the helmsman hits button and says they want to go to such and such a place at such and such a speed. I should point out that no one has argued that they shouldn't be combined.
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Post by quinn6352 on Jan 2, 2012 21:57:58 GMT -5
From a technical stand point I am opposed to the idea that navigation and piloting would be combined into one position. I think this statement you made is what sparked that line of debate. I know what you were trying to say, but maybe erys didnt. idk. lol ;D
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Post by Captain T'Pang on May 16, 2013 23:00:48 GMT -5
I had this idea to expand the starship positions list to include positions that junior officers or even enlisted crew persons might have. I put together a list of engineering positions first along with skills recommended for such a position. This is not to say that player character junior officers need to select some specialization. As a matter of fact being to specialized on your job function may be too much of a restriction on RP. The idea is that on starships, particularly large ones such specialists would likely to exist. Although a player could specialize for added character definition.
Note: This list below is only engineering jobs so far and the entire content is up for debate, especially the recommended job skills.
Engineering Officer
There are several non-specialized Engineers aboard of each vessel. They are assigned to their duties by the Chief Engineer and his Assistant, performing a number of different tasks as required (i.e. general maintenance and repair). Generally Engineers as assigned to more specialized Engineering person to assist in there work is so requested by the specialized Engineer. Skills: An Engineering officer can have any engineering skills at any level. It is recommended that they have at least Space Science (Astronautics)
Communications Specialist
The Communications Specialist is a specialized Engineer. Communication aboard a ship or facility takes two basic forms, voice and data. Both are handled by the onboard computer system and dedicated hardware. The vastness and complexity of this system requires a dedicated team to maintain the system.
The Communications Specialist is the Officer in charge of this team, which is made up from NCO personnel, assigned to the team by the Asst. and Chief Engineer. The Communications Specialist reports to the Asst and Chief Engineer. Skills: The Communications specialist should have both Communication Systems Operation and Communication Systems Technology at 40+. Other useful skills include Computer Operation , Computer Technology, and Electronics Technology.
Computer Systems Specialist
The Computer Systems Specialist is a specialized Engineer. The new generation of Computer systems are highly developed. This system needs much maintenance and the Computer Systems Specialist was introduced to relieve the Science Officer, whose duty this was in the very early days.
A small team is assigned to the Computer Systems Specialist, which is made up from NCO personnel assigned by the Asst. and Chief Engineer. The Computer Systems Specialist reports to the Asst and Chief Engineer. Skills: The computer systems Specialist should have Computer Operation, Computer Technology, Physical Science (Computer Science) all at 40+. Other useful skills include Electronics technology.
Damage Control Specialist
The Damage Control Specialist is a specialized Engineer. The Damage Control Specialist controls all damage control aboard the ship when it gets damaged in battle. S/he oversees all damage repair aboard the ship, and coordinates repair teams on the smaller jobs so the Chief Engineer can worry about other matters.
A small team is assigned to the Damage Control Specialist which is made up from NCO personnel assigned by the Asst. and Chief Engineer. The Damage Control Specialist reports to the Asst. and Chief Engineer.
Skills: The damage control specialist should have Computer Operation, Damage Control procedures, and Communications Systems Operation all at 40+. For this specialist any other engineering skill is useful.
Impulse Systems Specialist
The Impulse Systems Specialist is a specialized Engineer. The complexity of the impulse systems of any starship is further complicated by the different settings required for each ship. No two vessels have exactly the same system aboard, and all settings require careful maintenance and checks to ensure peek performance. On smaller vessels this task may be performed by the Chief Engineer, but larger vessel have a dedicated Officer who's role to to ensure the impulse systems run under any condition.
A small team is assigned to the Impulse Systems Specialist which is made up from NCO personnel, assigned by the Asst. and Chief Engineer. The Warp Systems Specialist reports to the Asst and Chief Engineer. Skills: Computer Systems Operation and Space Science (Astronautics) at 40+. Other engineering skills may prove useful depending on the situation.
Matter / Energy Systems Specialist
The Matter / Energy Systems Specialist is a specialized Engineer. All aspect of matter energy transfers with the sole exception of the warp drive systems are handled by the Matter/Energy Systems Specialist. Such areas involved are transporter and replicator systems. The Matter/Energy Systems Specialist is the Officer in charge of a small team, which is made up from NCO personnel, assigned by the Asst. and Chief Engineer. The Matter/Energy Systems Specialist reports to the Asst and Chief Engineer. Skills: Computer Operation, Space Science (Astronautics), Transporter Operational Procedures, Transporter Systems Technology at 40+. Other engineering skills are useful depending on the situation.
Sensor Systems Specialist
The Sensor Systems Specialist is a specialized Engineer. Dedicated to the maintenance and operation of the navigation deflector, guidance, helm, reaction control systems and all other sensor systems.
A small team is assigned to the Sensor Systems Specialist, which is made up from NCO personnel, assigned by the Asst. and Chief Engineer. The Sensor Systems Specialist reports to the Asst and Chief Engineer. Skills: Computer Operation, Sensor Operation, Space Science (Astronautics), Deflector Shield Operation, Deflector Shield Technology, and Electronics Technology most if not all at 40+. Most other engineering skills would be very useful.
Shuttlecraft Maintenance Specialist
Shuttlecraft Maintenance is a specialized Engineer post. This Officer is assigned to the Shuttle Maintenance Deck (sometimes called the Flight Deck, but generally only if Fighter Pilot personnel are assigned), and is responsible for the service and repair of all small vessel assigned to the Starship or facility. The flight deck must maintain a set number for craft at all times for evacuation purposes in case of emergency.
A team is assigned to the Engineer in charge of Shuttlecraft Maintenance, which is made up from NCO personnel, assigned by the Asst. and Chief Engineer. The Engineer in charge of Shuttlecraft Maintenance reports to the Asst and Chief Engineer.
Should the vessel of facility have a dedicated Fighter Pilot Department assigned, then maintenance of these craft falls under the service of the Shuttlecraft Maintenance teams, Engineer in charge of Shuttlecraft Maintenance will report required information to the Wing Commander. Skills: Mechanical Engineering, Shuttlecraft Pilot, and Shuttlecraft Systems Technology at 40+. Other skills, such as Small Equipment Systems Operation, Small Equipment Systems Technology, Starship Weaponry Technology, Electronics Technology, Computer Technology and others can be very useful.
Structural / Environmental Systems Specialist
The Structural and Environmental Systems Specialist is a specialised Engineer. From a small ship/facility to a large one, all requires constant monitoring. The hull, bulkheads, walls, Jeffrey's tubes, turbolifts, structural integrity field, internal dampening field, and environmental systems are all monitored and maintained by this officer and his/her team.
The team assigned to the Structural and Environmental Systems Specialist is made up from NCO personnel, assigned by the Asst. and Chief Engineer. The Structural and Environmental Systems Specialist reports to the Asst and Chief Engineer. Skills: Computer Operation, SpaceScience (Astronautics), Life Support Systems Technology at 40+. Skills like Mechanical Engineering, Electronics Technology, Computer Technology, Deflector Shield Operation, and Deflector Shield Technology would be good to have as well as other engineering skills.
Transporter Chief
The Transporter Chief is responsible for all transports to and from other ships and any planetary bodies. When transporting is not going on, the Transporter Chief is responsible for keeping the transporters running at peak efficiency.
The team assigned to the Transporter Chief is made up from NCO personnel, assigned by the Asst. and Chief Engineer. The Transporter Chief reports to the Asst and Chief Engineer.
Skills: Computer Operation, Transporter Operational Procedures, and Transporter Systems Technology at 40+. Skills such as Computer Technology and Electronics Technology can be useful.
Warp Systems Specialist
The Warp Systems Specialist is a specialized Engineer. The complexity of the Warp Drive system and impulse systems of any starship is further complicated by the different settings required for each ship. No two vessels have exactly the same system aboard, and all settings require careful maintenance and checks to ensure peek performance. On smaller vessels this task may be performed by the Chief Engineer, but larger vessel have a dedicated Officer who's role to to ensure the Warp Drive system and impulse systems runs under any condition.
A small team is assigned to the Warp Systems Specialist which is made up from NCO personnel, assigned by the Asst. and Chief Engineer. The Warp Systems Specialist reports to the Asst and Chief Engineer. Skills: Computer Operation, Warp DriveTechnology at 40+. The skill Space Science (Astronautics) is one they should have. Any other engineering skills can be useful depending on the situation.
Engineer's Mate
The Engineer's Mate trains and supervises Engineering crewmen in departmental operations, repairs, and protocols; maintains duty assignments for all Engineering personnel; and is qualified to temporarily act as Chief Engineer if so ordered. The Engineer's Mate reports to the Chief Engineer. Skills: Should have Computer Operation, Space Science (Astronautics), and Warp Drive Technology at 40+. The engineer's mate should also have Leadership, Administration, and Instruction, the higher the level the better. Any other engineering skill is a definite plus. Note: The job of engineer's mate is similar to Asst. Chief Engineer except the mate is a senior NCO and manages the enlisted crewman.
Engineer Crewman
Enlisted personel who assist the Engineer officers in Engineering operations on the ship. Their assignments are determined by the Engineer's Mate.
Skills: Any. The crewman's skills will be a determining factor in thier assignment.
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Post by Captain T'Pang on May 17, 2013 0:27:52 GMT -5
Alien Anthropologist / Anthropologist
Specialised Science Officer in charge of the Alien Culture Section. This role involves the study of all newly discovered alien species and life forms, from the long dead to thriving. There knowledge also involves current known alien species. Has close ties to the History Section.
Answers to the Chief and Asst. Science Officer.
Skills: Computer Operations, Social Sciences (archaeology and any racial culture/history) at 40+. Other science skills can be useful depending of the situation.
Astrometrics/Stellar Cartographer
Specialized Science Officer in charge of the Astrometrics Section. This role entails the maintaining, correction and production of new stellar maps. Has close ties with the the Physics and Helm/Navigation Sections.
Answers to the Chief and Asst. Science Officer. Skills: Computer Operation, Starship Sensors, Space Sciences (Astrogation, astrophysics and astronomy) at 40+
Biologist/Life Sciences
Specialised Science Officer in charge of the Biology Section. This role entails the study of biology, botany, zoology and many more Life Sciences. On larger ships there many be a number of Science Officers within this section, under the lead of the Biologist.
Answers to the Chief and Asst. Science Officer. Skills: Computer Operation at 40+ and Life Sciences (Biontics, Botany, Ecology, Exobiology, Genetics, Zoology) at any level but at least one if not most at 40+
Historian
Specialized Science Officer in charge of the History section. This role entails the detailed study of civilizations past histories, and there implication and involvement in the future development of cultures. Has close ties to the Alien Culture Section.
Answers to the Chief and Asst. Science Officer.
Skills: Computer Operation and Social Sciences (any racial culture/history) at 40+
Language Specialist
Specialized Science Officer in charge of the Linguistics section. This role involves the study of new and old languages and text in an attempt to better understand and interpret there meaning.
Answers to the Chief and Asst. Science Officer.
Skills: Computer Operation, Any number of language skills at 40+. Also such a specialist would have a skill in linguistics (study of languages), although there is not a specific listing for linguistics, but of there was it would likely be a social science
Physicist
Specialized Science Officer in charge of the Physics Section. This role entails the study of mathematical calculations and there implication and viability on the natural physics of the universe. It also involves the study of the natural physics of the universe and attempts to decipher them. Has close ties with the Stellar Cartographer and Astrometrics Section.
Answers to the Chief and Asst. Science Officer.
Skills: Computer Operation, Starship Sensors, Physical Sciences (Physics, Computer Science, Mathematics) all at 40+ Chemist Specialized Science Officer in charge of the Chemistry Section. This role entails the study of chemistry (both theoretical and practical) and the collection and analysis of any chemical samples discovered. Chemists,often work closely with medical in testing and analysing chemical samples and synthesizing drugs. Skills: Computer Operation, Physical Sciences (Chemistry) at 40+
Scientist's Mate
The Scientist's Mate trains and supervises Science crewmen in departmental operations, repairs, and protocols; maintains duty assignments for all Science personnel; supervises all specimen preparation, cataloguing, and storage; and is qualified to temporarily act as Chief Science Officer if so ordered.
The Scientist's Mate reports to the Chief Science Officer. This is a senior NCO position. Skills: Computer Operation, Starship Sensors, Leadership, Teaching at at good levels (preferably 40+). Any other science skill at any level is useful.
Science Crewman
Enlisted personel who assist the Science officers Scientist's Mate in scientific operations on the ship. Their assignments are determined by the Scientist's Mate.
Skills: any science at any level.
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Post by Captain T'Pang on May 17, 2013 0:50:36 GMT -5
Operations Officer
The Chief Operations Officer cannot man the bridge at all times. Extra personnel are needed to relive and maintain ship operations. The Operations Officers are thus assistants to the Chief, fulfilling his/her duties when required, and assuming the Operations consoles if required at any time.
The Operations Officer reports to the Chief Operations Officer.
Skills: Computer Operations, Starship Sensors, Administration, Space Sciences (Astrogation) all at 40+. Nearly any Starship/Systems operation skill or engineering skill could potentially be useful depending on the situation.
Boatswain
Each vessel and base has one Warrant Officer (or Chief Warrant Officer) who holds the position of Boatswain. The Boatswain (pronounced and also written "Bosun" or "Bos'n") trains and supervises personnel (including both the ship's company or base personnel as well as passengers or vessels) in general ship and base operations, repairs, and protocols; maintains duty assignments for all Operations personnel; sets the agenda for instruction in general ship and base operations; supervises auxiliary and utility service personnel and daily ship or base maintenance; coordinates all personnel cross-trained in damage control operations and supervises damage control and emergency operations; may assume any Bridge or Operations role as required; and is qualified to temporarily act at Operations if so ordered. The Boatswain reports to the Chief Operations Officer.
Skills: Computer Operations, Starship Sensors, Administration, Space Sciences (Astrogation) all at 40+. Nearly any Starship/Systems operation skill or engineering skill could potentially be useful depending on the situation. Additionally the bosun should have both leadership and Teaching skills.
Boatswain's Mate
The Boatswain, like many other positions, needs help at times. The Boatswain's Mate is an NCO that assists the Boatswain and helps out in the Operations Department whereever needed.
Skills: Any Starship/Systems Operations skill at any level.
Materials Officer
Replicator usage can allow the fabrication of nearly any critical mission part, but large-scale replication is not considered energy-efficient except in emergency situations. However, in such situations, power usage is strictly limited, so it is unwise to depend upon the availability of replicated spare parts.
Thus a ship/facility must maintain a significant stock of spare parts in inventory at all times. The Materials Officer is the person responsible for the requesting part from Starfleet and maintaining the stock and inventory of all spare parts. All request for supplies are passed to the Materials Officer, who check and send the final request to the XO for final approval. A good Materials Officer is never caught short on supplies.
Skills: Administration at 40+. A good materials officer often has skills such as Streetwise, Diplomacy, and Carousing for getting those hard to aquire parts from non standard sources.
Operations Crewman
Enlisted personel who assist the Boatswain's Mate.
Skills: Any Starship/System Operations skill at any level.
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Post by Vice Admiral Brian Donaldson on May 17, 2013 16:24:54 GMT -5
I like most of it, but I don't really think starfleet would have a boatswain or related position on a starship. Traditionally, a boatswain is an enlisted departmenthead in charge of seagoing ship's deck department. The duties of of this position is usually depicted as being supervised by the chief engineer. On top of that, I recently watched a voyager episode where voyager discovers an ocean planet, and when Paris was briefing Harry kim on it, he said kim could be his boatswain's mate, kim looked at Paris as if he was speaking another language... And Paris explained it was naval speak. But, starfleet does use a boatswain's whistle. So...
--------
I would assume enlisted crewman would be members of one of the ship's several departments and subdepartments, always answering to an officer who would be directly in charge of them.
I would add several of the subdepartments, like astrophysics department, astrometrics department, stellar sciences department, stellar cartography department... Etcetera.
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Post by Captain Erys Murai on May 17, 2013 16:53:33 GMT -5
I would assume enlisted crewman would be members of one of the ship's several departments and subdepartments, always answering to an officer who would be directly in charge of them. Except in cases where an enlisted crewman is in charge of said department. For example, Senior Chief Petty Officer Miles O'brien was the Chief of Operations for DS9, and the Chief Engineer for the Defiant. Of course, he had Sisko and Worf over him, but O'brien was directly in charge of the Engineering department. Further, O'brien once commented that as soon as Nog graduated from the academy, he'd have to start saluting him. Yet as O'brien was the Operations Chief, Nog reported directly to O'brien. It seems to be one of the few examples of an Officer reporting to an Enlisted, rather than the other way around. The command structure can get pretty complicated though. When O'brien and Bashir were stranded, Bashir always pulled rank on him, despite the fact that O'brien was the operations chief, and Bashir was "only" a doctor.
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Post by Vice Admiral Brian Donaldson on May 17, 2013 17:40:13 GMT -5
Ok, i did some further research.
Currently, in the us navy, there is no real position called boatswain, but their are boatswain's mates, who assists the ship's First Lieutenant (a positional title, not rank). The First Lieutenant is actually the officer incharge of the deck department, multiple boatswain's mates assist him/her, by leading work crews.
On smaller ships, the first lieutenant is usually an ensign or lieutenant. On larger vessels, lieutenant commander. On an aircraft carrier, they are usually lieutenant commanders or even commanders. On subs, the first lieutenant may be a senior enlisted man, due to the deck departments small size, usually 5 or 6 enlisted personnel.
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Post by Captain T'Pang on May 17, 2013 17:40:57 GMT -5
I like most of it, but I don't really think starfleet would have a boatswain or related position on a starship. Traditionally, a boatswain is an enlisted departmenthead in charge of seagoing ship's deck department. The duties of of this position is usually depicted as being supervised by the chief engineer. On top of that, I recently watched a voyager episode where voyager discovers an ocean planet, and when Paris was briefing Harry kim on it, he said kim could be his boatswain's mate, kim looked at Paris as if he was speaking another language... And Paris explained it was naval speak. But, starfleet does use a boatswain's whistle. So... -------- I would assume enlisted crewman would be members of one of the ship's several departments and subdepartments, always answering to an officer who would be directly in charge of them. I would add several of the subdepartments, like astrophysics department, astrometrics department, stellar sciences department, stellar cartography department... Etcetera. You are probably right that a starship wouldn't likely have a bosun, that position sort of implies a department of considerable size, such as a Starbase or other large facility with a large complicated chain of command. Additionally, even if the position is not called a bosun in Starfleet, there may in fact be an NCO who fulfills the role. However most starships probably do not have large enough engineering or operations departments to warrant such a position. besides none of these positions are required, in fact the smaller the department the less likely there would be any sub departments or specializations. As far as sciences Astrophysics and Astronomy would be considered part of astrometrics. Plus astrophysics and stellar sciences would be the same thing. I did include astrometrics as a sciences sub department and astrometrics and stellar cartography would also be the same thing as well or at least part of the same department.
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Post by Vice Admiral Brian Donaldson on May 17, 2013 17:51:14 GMT -5
-nods-
As far as the different science sub departments, I was only using examples mentioned on screen. Like the enterprise-d had both a stellar sciences department and a stellarcartography department. Voyager had an astrometrics department and a stellar sciences department. Each are part of the larger science department, but specialize in a particular scientific task. Like stellar cartography charts stars and space, stellar sciences studied the science of stars and astronomical phenomenon.
Just saying, regardless, we don't have nearly the player numbers for any of it, but I know I at least use most of this for my npc roster of the endeavour.
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Post by Captain T'Pang on May 17, 2013 18:14:14 GMT -5
-nods- As far as the different science sub departments, I was only using examples mentioned on screen. Like the enterprise-d had both a stellar sciences department and a stellarcartography department. Voyager had an astrometrics department and a stellar sciences department. Each are part of the larger science department, but specialize in a particular scientific task. Like stellar cartography charts stars and space, stellar sciences studied the science of stars and astronomical phenomenon. Just saying, regardless, we don't have nearly the player numbers for any of it, but I know I at least use most of this for my npc roster of the endeavour. Of course there are two distinctions here. 1) one are departments names, 2) job descriptors. Department names would describe the area of the ship the person works in. This is more or less the name of a room or lab on board the ship. For example the lab on board the ship might be referred to as Stellar Cartography, but the people working inside would be Astronomers or astrophysicists. Anyway, the point of the list wasn't to create positions to be filled by player characters. Since on most ship's there is unlikely to be more than one or two player characters in a department, that doesn't allow for a lot of specialization. One reason is to specify what sort of skills a person working in that area would likely be using. A second reason is to present information that players can use to flesh out the background of their character some more. "Yeah my character's first assignment was working in astrometrics on the USS Dysfunctional." and the listing of recommended skills helps ensure that such a backstory is consistent with the skills the character has. As part of that it allows the player to compare the skills their character has and compare it to various jobs in their department to see what they are more qualified for. This allows players to list their character's qualifications. Which is also helpful for character development. A third reason is for cases where you have a senior officer and at least one junior officer. They can't typically both be on the bridge, so it is helpful to assign an IC job that the junior officer is doing when not on the bridge. It would give them a place and a function.
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Post by Vice Admiral Brian Donaldson on May 17, 2013 18:58:51 GMT -5
Don't misunderstand. I'm not disagreeing with anything your saying. I was just trying to clarify the reasoning behind what I posted.
In practice, I'm already utilizing most of what your saying in exactly the way your saying. I was just trying to help out by voicing my personal opinions on what you said.
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