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Post by Lieutenant Xemion Xethrill on Sept 22, 2013 23:44:15 GMT -5
As the show never really gives a specific "this level is possesed by <insert rank here>"(To my knowledge) I was wondering if we actually had our own kind of chart, I have personally always used a chart an old Star Trek rp fleet of mine used:
Level 1(All personnel and Civilians in Starfleet service): Limited access to Starfleet or Federation documents and records. Access is limited to job related elements.
Level 2(All personnel in Operational Duties): Limited access to all Starfleet or Federation documents and records. Access is limited on a 'need to know' basis.
Level 3(Lieutenants/Lieutenant Commanders/Majors, Marine Captains): Limited access to all Classified and Secret Starfleet or Federation documents and records. Access is limited on a 'need to know' basis.
Level 4(Commander/Captains/Lt. Colonel/Colonel): Limited access to all Classified, Secret, Top-Secret Starfleet or Federation documents and records. Access is limited on a 'need to know' basis.
Level 5(Flag Officers): Unlimited access to all Classified, Secret, Top-Secret, Ultra-Secret Starfleet or Federation documents and records.
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Post by Captain Erys Murai on Sept 23, 2013 9:35:49 GMT -5
It's usually not based on rank (even in the modern military).
The modern military uses the following levels: 1. Confidential 2. Secret 3. Top Secret (projects like the Stealth Fighter)
The "official" levels of Starfleet (according to Memory Alpha) are as follows:
Level 1 - Allows access to stations personnel and official logs. - Allows access to weapons locker for Starfleet personnel.
Level 3 (Equivalent to "Confidential") - Required to access classified information regarding the USS Voyager following its disappearance in the Badlands in 2371.
Level 4 (Equivalent to "Secret") - Allows access to Deep Space 9's ship-departure logs. - Level required to access tactical data, including multi-vector assault mode, on the USS Prometheus. This level is also required to access ship's communications aboard the Prometheus. - Required access level to be a Starfleet Intelligence officer
Level 5 - Required access to show the station layout of DS9, while highlighting all repaired replicators on the command level.
Level 7 - Allows access to weapons locker for non-station operations personnel. - Allows access to runabout launch pads.
Level 9 - Required to override a Cardassian counter-insurgency program initiated during a Bajoran revolt.
Level 10 (Command-level, equivalent to "Top Secret") - This security level is for information labeled as for captain's eyes only. - Required to access the Omega One data file, which contains information on the Omega Directive.
Levels 2, 6, and 8 are all missing from that list, but I suspect they're not quite as important. There's also some odd ones (such as Picard having "A-2", or Sisko having "S-9"), but those might be subsets of Level 10.
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Post by Lieutenant Xemion Xethrill on Sept 23, 2013 14:39:05 GMT -5
Level 3(Lieutenants/Lieutenant Commanders/Majors, Marine Captains): Limited access to all Classified and Secret Starfleet or Federation documents and records. Access is limited on a 'need to know' basis. Level 4(Commander/Captains/Lt. Colonel/Colonel): Limited access to all Classified, Secret, Top-Secret Starfleet or Federation documents and records. Access is limited on a 'need to know' basis. Both charts are the same with the one I posted adding rank into it, a good example of use would be Lieutenant Barclay had level 3 clearance than was assigned to the "Get Voyager Home" project and was now on the "need to know basis".
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Post by Lt Cmdr Billie Jo Spencer MD on Sept 23, 2013 16:13:15 GMT -5
So if security clearance is not based on rank then what is it based on? In terms of our RP, what determines our characters security clearance?
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 23, 2013 17:09:49 GMT -5
Bradley Edward Manning(at least "his" name at the time) was a Specialist I believe, and held a Top Secret/SCI clearance. Military personnel, regardless of rank, working in communication centers and intelligence are going to have high levels of top secret clearance, since their jobs put them in routine contact with sensitive information. Most will have Top Secret/SCI (Sensitive compartmented information). In case people are not familiar, he was responsible for leaking the largest set of restricted documents to the public. His/her court martial ended recently. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning#Enlistment_in_the_army
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Post by Captain Erys Murai on Sept 23, 2013 17:10:59 GMT -5
In the modern military, clearance is based more on background and training than rank. For example, my dad had Top Secret clearance as a tech sergeant (E-6). That was specifically while he worked on the stealth fighter.
In terms of RP, it would likely be on a case-by-case basis. For example, a security officer may have a need to know certain things, and likely has higher clearance than a science officer due to the need for access to more sensitive information.
If anything, it's based more on position than rank. A department chief generally has a greater need to know than a regular officer.
In general, I would expect all officers to have at least level one or two. Security officers three or four minimum, department heads at least seven, and command officers at ten.
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DGM Cygnus
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Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 23, 2013 17:20:25 GMT -5
It also relative to the job, the Doctor will have all sorts of private information about crew records and files, but find she has limited access to Sentinel ship layouts and detailed system information. Shantal will have limited access to detailed medical records of her crew, but will have every clearance on Sentinel systems.
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Post by Captain T'Pang on Sept 23, 2013 20:17:17 GMT -5
Of course it important to remember that a security clearance is not an access code. Most sensitive information would be handed out on a need to know basis. A security clearance is a general level of trust you are given, but just because you have a high level of trust does not mean you are given access to all information of that clearance level or below. But if the keepers of that sensitive information decide to reveal it to you, they know they can do so legally. For example, the chief medical officer may have the clearance to see the technical specs on the warp drive, but not being an engineer has no need to see them. Some information is protected by things beyond security clearance, such as medical records. Given that legally you can not view a persons medical records without their permission no matter what your security clearance. Of course it is also the case that persons applying for security clearances or certain sensitive jobs are often required to waive such confidentiality. Basically my point is that your security clearance does not determine what information you have access to, just what information you can be given access to. Let's face it if the secret plans are hidden in a safe to which you don't have the code to you can view them no matter what your security clearance.
Additionally all department head personnel and above would have to have fairly high clearance as in a crisis situation would have to assume more and more of command functions on little or no notice.
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Post by Lieutenant Xemion Xethrill on Sept 23, 2013 20:56:24 GMT -5
In terms of RP, it would likely be on a case-by-case basis. For example, a security officer may have a need to know certain things, and likely has higher clearance than a science officer due to the need for access to more sensitive information. I think this would make more sense, what if there are different categories like Science, Medical, Tactical, and Engineering, and say Xemion has more clearance in Science related information than Erys, Shantal, or Spencer, but Erys has more in Tactical, Shantal in Engineering, and Spencer in Medical. Basically my point is that your security clearance does not determine what information you have access to, just what information you can be given access to. Let's face it if the secret plans are hidden in a safe to which you don't have the code to you can view them no matter what your security clearance. Additionally all department head personnel and above would have to have fairly high clearance as in a crisis situation would have to assume more and more of command functions on little or no notice. Yeah, that is what I was basically thinking. Bradley Edward Manning(at least "his" name at the time) was a Specialist I believe, and held a Top Secret/SCI clearance. Military personnel, regardless of rank, working in communication centers and intelligence are going to have high levels of top secret clearance, since their jobs put them in routine contact with sensitive information. Most will have Top Secret/SCI (Sensitive compartmented information). Mhm, Ms. Manning would have the equivalent to level 4 clearance on both charts, as she had access to 'secret' level things since she was basically in the real equivalent of Starfleet Intelligence.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 23, 2013 21:02:52 GMT -5
They would if the are line officers, basically a officer that has the authority to take command of the vessel. Doctors are not usually line officers Why the sudden interest in trying to formalize a security clearance format and code to adhere to? I know for myself and Kitty, we simply wing it based on general knowledge and the needs of the story and how the role playing happens, but we both have a good amount of Trek lore and military information to draw upon to add credibility and realism to the decisions. ..and Xem...Manning had Top Secret/SCI..it was quite high on the old clearance charts...and was enlisted, relatively low ranking enlisted, Specialist E-4. It serves as the example that rank is not the sole deciding factor for clearance, it is more role and information relative to that role. Trust is also not a rank exclusive, most communication officers and enlisted are not in command or have high ranks, but have to be trusted to keep the information they pass along private and for the appropriate parties, thus have very high security clearances. ~the demoness
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Post by Captain T'Pang on Sept 23, 2013 22:42:49 GMT -5
They would if the are line officers, basically a officer that has the authority to take command of the vessel. Doctors are not usually line officers ... ~the demoness You do have to consider that Beverly Crusher, as a fully certified bridge officer, took command of the Enterprise on a few occasions. In an alternate time line she had command of her own ship. The chief medical officer would not be the first choice for handing over command to, but under the right circumstances might be the best and only option. This doesn't mean that the CMO needs a level 10 security clearance, just that as a department head they would likely have more access that your typical medical officer.
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Post by Lieutenant Xemion Xethrill on Sept 23, 2013 23:38:45 GMT -5
Why the sudden interest in trying to formalize a security clearance format and code to adhere to? I know for myself and Kitty, we simply wing it based on general knowledge and the needs of the story and how the role playing happens, but we both have a good amount of Trek lore and military information to draw upon to add credibility and realism to the decisions. I was just asking if we had our own chart. XD ..and Xem...Manning had Top Secret/SCI..it was quite high on the old clearance charts...and was enlisted, relatively low ranking enlisted, Specialist E-4. It serves as the example that rank is not the sole deciding factor for clearance, it is more role and information relative to that role. Trust is also not a rank exclusive, most communication officers and enlisted are not in command or have high ranks, but have to be trusted to keep the information they pass along private and for the appropriate parties, thus have very high security clearances. ~the demoness I am not saying rank has everything to do with it, all the chart I posted says adds it in to show what said rank is normally trusted with, an ensign in engineering is not normally trusted with Starfleet information on the exact biology on the Undine. Manning was also a special officer not your everyday run of the mill frontline soldier thus he would be trusted with information whatever the rank.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 23, 2013 23:53:19 GMT -5
He was not an officer.
...and no, we have no chart. Again, why the need to clarify these fictional information access "levels" is my question?
~the demoness
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Post by Lieutenant Xemion Xethrill on Sept 24, 2013 1:13:18 GMT -5
He was not an officer. ...and no, we have no chart. Again, why the need to clarify these fictional information access "levels" is my question? ~the demoness Not really any exact reason other than it was just a question that came to mind.
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Post by Captain Erys Murai on Sept 24, 2013 9:46:56 GMT -5
Xemion, like I said before. My dad was enlisted (checked with him last night, and he started on the project as a Staff Sergeant (E5), and was promoted to Technical Sergeant (E6) on the flight to Saudi for Desert Storm). There were a lot of other enlisted guys working on the Stealth Fighter project, which was classified Top Secret. As both Cygnus and I have said, it's not tied to rank at all.
Now, it may be true that clearance can come along with rank, but rank is not a requirement for clearance. Some examples:
Level 1 Senior Chief Petty Officer Miles O'Brien
Level 3 (civilian) Wesley Crusher: access to the Custodian on Aldea. Ensign Harry Kim
Level 4 Lieutenant, JG Julian Bashir
Level 6 (civilian) Odo
Level 7 Lieutenant Commander Data (Alpha 1) (civilian) Quark (acquired/stolen) Lieutenant Commander Michael Eddington Lieutenant Commander Jadzia Dax Major Kira Nerys (equivalent to Lieutenant Commander) (civilian) Odo Lieutenant Commander Worf
Level 9 S.G. Dukat
Level 10 Captain Kathryn Janeway Captain Benjamin Sisko (Sigma 9) Captain Jean-Luc Picard (Alpha 2)
So.. you can see that clearance levels don't always go with rank. Take, for example, Eddington vs Odo. Both served as Chief of Security, and both had level 7 clearance, despite Odo not being a member of Starfleet. Kira also had the same clearance, despite the same issue.
You'll also note that most of the people at level 7 were Department Heads, but for some reason or another, Bashir only had level 4 clearance. Ensign Kim, on the other hand, had level 3, and O'brien only had level 1 (though the episodes this was stated were early ones. O'brien likely had higher clearance levels later on).
Now... IF you're going to tie clearance into rank, it should go as follows:
Enlisted: Level 1 Senior Enlisted: Level 2 Ensign: Level 3 Lieutenant, JG: Level 4 Lieutenant: Level 5 (Level 6 if Dept. Head School complete) Lieutenant Commander: Level 7 (Level 8 if Command School complete) Commander: Level 9 Captain: Level 10
Department-based levels: Bridge / Operations Officers: Level 3 Medical Officers: Level 4 Department Heads: Level 7 Executive Officers: Level 9 Starship Commanders: Level 10
Exceptions granted on a case-by-case basis.
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