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Post by Lt Commander Marcus Aquila on Jun 26, 2014 19:30:20 GMT -5
We have 2 on teh pilgrim.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Jun 26, 2014 19:47:38 GMT -5
I suppose my focus is all wrong. I been focusing on the feel, the role playing interactions and drama. Perhaps Adagio would be better served with an expert on all things Star Trek and stuff, which I am not.
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Post by Captain Anja Malitzka on Jun 26, 2014 20:22:15 GMT -5
I suppose my focus is all wrong. I been focusing on the feel, the role playing interactions and drama. Perhaps Adagio would be better served with an expert on all things Star Trek and stuff, which I am not. There isn't one singular aspect that is important to events and roleplaying. The suggestion that something might work better another way is not the same thing as saying that everything is wrong. Every individual has different input and different values, and relying on other people to offer a bit more of one effect is not a bad thing. Aside from my concerns about the Valkyrie from a technical standpoint, there's also the RP view where quite honestly it hasn't felt as though the Valkyries being unique and different has had a noticeable impact on the story. This is obviously to some degree related to the fact that players don't spend much time in them and perhaps partially due to the lack of Engineering staff on the vessel. I'm bringing these concerns up now because we are in a transition period, the subject has come up, and the effect of having something different hasn't really come into play for months. If you feel that this is an issue to be explored through in character interaction rather than out of character discussion, that's fine with me, I was simply trying to bring some of my personal expertise to the matter.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Jun 26, 2014 20:54:46 GMT -5
People never acknowledged what Talia's and my ideas have brought...only what "was wrong". They failed acknowledge the context of why we had them and any possible value in that. People fail to realize despite me clearly eluding to the fact, the change to a new Adagio was not my choice...my input was considered...just as the design of the Solbianca class and new Adagio, not my design...but our prior efforts and things we wanted were consider and possibly implemented. I simply do not know. Ultimately if Talia getting what she wants for her ship, then I will deal with whatever.
Concerns are wonderful, but if you do not take the time to acknowledge and convey an understanding of the value of what we have put in place already and why, especially in a creative role playing environment...you probably will not get the most productive of discussions.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Jun 26, 2014 21:41:09 GMT -5
You know Erys, you might be onto something. We could switch form ship based roleplaying and give everyone a Delta flyer that nothing short of a Tactical Cube could hurt it. You all can fly around on your own and make up your own shit as you go.
I disagree Anja...player and character interaction is the absolute most important aspect of our role playing experience. That aside, how would the ideas you are presenting translate into our in game experience? How would any of these make the experience more impactful, special and unique?
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Post by Captain Anja Malitzka on Jun 27, 2014 0:32:05 GMT -5
I disagree Anja...player and character interaction is the absolute most important aspect of our role playing experience. That aside, how would the ideas you are presenting translate into our in game experience? How would any of these make the experience more impactful, special and unique? I do think that understanding the structure and the world we live in makes things more impactful. It gives us a guideline for interaction, a place from which to draw ideas and build on them. Obviously not every small fact is required, but arbitrary decisions that go against the logic of the world make it often feel as though consequences aren't important. When I play a character, getting an understanding of the world I live in is paramount when I determine how I play that character. I need to know what that character would know about how the world is expected to respond. Once you know those things, you build a character that fits into that world; not necessarily one who is perfect for that position, but one formed to work in those guidelines. What we've seen from experience is that when characters aren't built to fit in that world, it becomes disruptive. Those who have an expectation of how the world works find the experience less impactful when the world doesn't respond in a reasonable way. I enjoy the Adagio the majority of the time; we manage to tell good stories within the universe. We have seen characters grow and change to match their experiences. Malitzka in particular has had massive changes since she first came aboard. You have been a major part of helping me make those stories, responding to some of my requests to implement changes. You shouldn't consider my questions and input an attack, because they are not meant as such. As for how this would impact the game experience: The Valkyrie came into existence in John's hands (as far as I am aware) like a great many other major changes. He did crazy things with the warp drive and made ballistic weapons common issue on the ship... both of these changes pretty much faded into the background after he left because they weren't offering anything more than what the universe made available, and fitting into the universe made it easier for people to know what to expect. The Valkyries being different doesn't feel as though it's had an impact on the story and interaction since the Dragon attack on New Romulus around a year ago. They've pretty much just been fighters and shuttles with the name Valkyrie placed on top of them. That name gave them impact, and I've suggested how that name can continue to do so. If there are some plans I am unaware of that would make the Valkyrie impactful again, then letting me know that there are story reasons is fine. If the desire is to make changes like this the focus of IC interaction rather than OOC discussion, that's fine, although some OOC discussion should be involved. If this is a point where other people on the ship feel that I'm wrong, then that's also fine, but the information on the Valkyries is buried deep in the Adagio subforum with no update, and as far as any new person on the ship would know, they're just some breed of normal fighter or shuttle. If them being different is an important part of the feel of the ship, then we should put in more effort to make that known.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Jun 27, 2014 0:43:13 GMT -5
None of which acknowledges anything already in place and the intent of those efforts. You will find the demoness is willing to compromise and she has given you the avenue to do it with.
Presently we will be relaunching with out everything clearly defined and ironed out, not sure what to tell you...
~the demoness
P.S. Remember, it is a fictional setting of imagination, but it does have a general feel and guidelines. Just because something defies your perception of what is logical, does not make it so. You have an uncompromising vision Anja, which make it impossible for me to work with unless I concede...not the best of position to find ourselves... In brief your "suggestion" is...ditch the Valkyrie, they are illogical and add nothing, this is why. I do not see middle ground, do you?
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Post by DGM Soft Kitty on Jun 27, 2014 3:06:21 GMT -5
The Valkyries and dragon were approved through channels as a test bed hybrid shuttle that has been used on planetside away missions and in exploration as well as defense and combat action. She is a modular system that is subject to the given missions needs. The Adagio-A and now -B have improved the design and evolved the materials. The system uses current Starfleet issue with only minor mods that can be replicated to maintain itself in the field logistically. Our engineers, Medical personal as well as Delta and Security teams likewise havemade us of them to great effect in battle and in planetary rescues...from natural disasters to helping clean up the HC-19 mess. Much like the Delta flyer, they are a unique system that I could see being used by more than just us. As to updates I would be happy to update the abilities and project as it is on going. I never once saw it as a failed system. Much like a shuttle born swiss army knife, it is a practical vessel for the use of the explorers and cruisers of the Federation. Talia has always supported it and is pushing for it and the MkIIs to become more common place...she believes in the project since it was approved for study and field tests in action. -shrugs- I dont see how it lacks a Trek era feel...it doesnt do anything beyond current tech..just takes that canon tech into a different direction for its application. Which is why OOCly I am behind it and the IC mode..Talia adores their versitility...she would have to be ordered under protest to give em up and only after she exhausted a respectful fight in channels to keep the program alive ) Other than that they are a neat little ship with endless possibilities for rp creativity and for our engineers to continue to tinker with and see what new directions (within reason ofcourse ) to take them in...where they evolve next. I say there is room..but i think we are derailing Eyrs' thread here some. She is interested in discussing how fighters might be organized in Starfleet from the Dominion wars to now. I think the Berzerker and Peregrines saw some updates too...as I recall even the US has several types of fighters..bombers..and even many types of helicopters..attack and rescue and troop deployment too...so I think Starfleet would have the same..some new updates to old classes of fighters and some newer ones with variants Just my two cents
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Post by Vice Admiral Nyoko Honda on Jun 27, 2014 3:31:48 GMT -5
You know Erys, you might be onto something. We could switch form ship based roleplaying and give everyone a Delta flyer that nothing short of a Tactical Cube could hurt it. You all can fly around on your own and make up your own shit as you go. LOLOL don't be mean xeai
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Jun 27, 2014 8:54:16 GMT -5
Delta Flyer was designed to be durable, go places a regular shuttle could not. It just increased the effective area of operation of a standard shuttle.
Even Battletech has Omnimechs :
An OmniMech is a highly configurable (sub-)type of BattleMech developed by Clan Coyote during the Golden Century. OmniMechs mount some (or all) of their loadout in modular OmniMech-compatible OmniPods. This gives Omnis the ability to replace damaged components and change battlefield role to fulfill mission requirements. OmniPods can contain a wide range of weapon systems and a limited selection of structural components and equipment. An OmniMech's capabilities are mostly limited by the amount of Pod Space it possesses (both in mass and bulk) and durability, though OmniMech logistics, like available Pod-mounted components, facilities, and even short reconfiguration times, can also affect performance.
Valkyrie are the exact same concept on broader scope. Dragons are our equivalent to omnimechs in fighter form.
Supplies need to be moved manually, modules switched out and cargo extensions added. Need for combat, modules switched and weapon and supporting systems added. Need to patrol, modules switched and advanced AWAC style gear added (even helping to detect and track stealth units) Adagio could not cloak, but the deck crews could equip to Valkyries cloak... These are not all of potential configurations, imaginative Captain's and crews can try many more things (some may work, some not). Adagio needs tools to facilitate more than just blowing things to bits, Valkyrie are just that, but can be fitted to help blowing things up just as well.
It also GAVE the potential for players in engineering something to role play out on the "flight deck" a real "prep for launch" style experience, just never happened -shrugs-
As Talia sighted, she has always been willing to help players refine and add to the project and experience, we both are. We had John do the presentation JUST for that reason, to promote player participation in it... So now with the combined onslaught of everything presented by the demoness and Talia's feedback as well, do you see why I am a bit resistant to just say "Sure Anja, great idea. We'll just ditch it all!"
~the demoness
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Post by DGM Soft Kitty on Jun 27, 2014 11:27:03 GMT -5
Plus Im sorta stubborn that way in real life too By the way though like Erys I also love the Delta Flyer! It was like Paris felt the need to toy with his dream car in the garage! I think it even had fuzzy dice
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Post by Lt. jg Devon Robins on Jul 5, 2014 17:24:35 GMT -5
Is there an actual page for Berzerkers? Because I've been scouring the wiki and turning up nothing.
Anyways, I think some of your sqaudron counts are low. An Akira or Thunderchild can fit close to two full squadrons of 18m+ fighters with some squeezing, assuming the full through-deck hangar on the former.
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Post by Lt Commander Marcus Aquila on Jul 5, 2014 23:14:38 GMT -5
Without the advanced hanger though the thunderchild is limited to a squadron and support craft. also on teh berzerkers i'll do a write up soon of the specs
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Post by Kossuth on Jul 6, 2014 10:37:23 GMT -5
My love for you is like a truck, berzerker
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Post by Lt Commander Marcus Aquila on Jul 6, 2014 10:42:33 GMT -5
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