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Post by Lt Cmdr Billie Jo Spencer MD on Aug 2, 2016 1:38:39 GMT -5
There are at least a couple of races in Star Trek that have under gone a diaspora and branched off into two different species. Examples being Vulcan/Romulan and Caitian/Ferasan. I am wondering if you had the Gemeral Medicine skill for one species would you by default be able to treat someone of the other species. If you had General Medicine (Vulcan) would you be able to treat Romulans and vice versa? It would seem rather plausible that you could.
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Post by DGM Soft Kitty on Aug 2, 2016 5:14:56 GMT -5
I agree and play it as such on my ship...with thing to the side that might be unique like a disease or so to one race or the other. For me the only time the difference sorta plays into it would be a specific medical problem that one race. other as the skill says its a General Medicine skill....
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Post by Lt Cmdr Aria Xalot on Aug 3, 2016 0:52:15 GMT -5
From a real world perspective I'd guess yes. The times involved are so small that they aren't even different sub species. I'd wager it's more just cultural differences.
For Vulcans and romulans in particular my pet theory is the visual differences apparent on some of them is a genetically recessive trait. Given they started with such a small base group it makes sense. Plus we've seen both forehead ridged and non so it's not all of them like that.
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Post by Lieutenant jg Sovek on Aug 4, 2016 9:17:34 GMT -5
Well, I cannot speak for the other races but Vulcan and Romulus were different enough to confuse Beverly and even prevent treatment because what worked for a Vulcan did not work for a Romulans as Vulcans evolved differently a substantial amount from the 'base'. We can assume Romulan as well drifted. The outward appearance though is because Romulan never got rid of the foreheads in their evolutionary path whilst the Vulcans did, we can see this to be the case in the Proto-Vulcans who appear Romulan and not Vulcan -- yet.
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Post by DGM Soft Kitty on Aug 4, 2016 11:11:34 GMT -5
Well, I cannot speak for the other races but Vulcan and Romulus were different enough to confuse Beverly and even prevent treatment because what worked for a Vulcan did not work for a Romulans as Vulcans evolved differently a substantial amount from the 'base'. We can assume Romulan as well drifted. The outward appearance though is because Romulan never got rid of the foreheads in their evolutionary path whilst the Vulcans did, we can see this to be the case in the Proto-Vulcans who appear Romulan and not Vulcan -- yet. Again I agree, it is going to come down to general treatment vs story line needs...but if it is simple enough and doesnt pertain much to the story, the skill can be used to affect such a treatment for the patient. and btw off topic i thought that was a wonderful touch to add the foreheads to the Mintokens foreheads (I think the Proto-Vulcans were Mintokens) it was just a neat touch effect wise -Kitty
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Post by Lt Cmdr Billie Jo Spencer MD on Aug 4, 2016 11:22:19 GMT -5
It certainly seems reasonable that there would be enough of a difference between a species like Vulcan/Romulans that training in medicine for one species would not automatically give one the ability to treat the other. But it also makes sense that training in medicine for one species would give at some ability to treat the other since their physiology could not be that much different after only a few thousand years. Of course then again given that all humanoid species have some similarity due to the preserveers being responsible for seeding them through the galaxy. It seems likely that medical training in one would give at least some insight into treating all the others.
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Ensign Sebetharen Adryan
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Post by Ensign Sebetharen Adryan on Aug 4, 2016 12:59:21 GMT -5
Given how far science probably has come in the 25th century, it certainly makes for a good argument. However, a person will always know their own race better simply because they've had more time to experiment on it, but I would think if you are an expert in Vulcan physiology it's likely you can treat 90% of Romulan issues. Though exploring genetics as a story might be fun. Could happen in the future.
Edit: Also, there's the instances of half-breeds. How different are they from what the normal species are? Spock was half vulcan and half human.. his traits were dominantly vulcan, but was everything where it should be? What physical characteristics did he really get from being half human? These aren't really explored and it'd be fun to discuss the implications.
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Post by Lt Cmdr Aria Xalot on Aug 4, 2016 15:40:46 GMT -5
Non sequiter. But this is among the things in Star Trek that bugs the shit out of me. They throw common sense completely out the window for story line sometimes. For example the earlier Beverly Crusher being confused by their different physiology. In real world terms the time the two "Species" have been separated is non consequential. Its around 2000 years or so between the Romulans leaving Vulcan and TOS. For Comparison the land bridge over the bering straights which the native americans crossed to populate the Americas disappeared 11,000 years ago. so lets subtract roughly 500 years from that to predate running into Europeans and mixing the blood lines once more and you have a 10,500 year divergence yet still besides lacking antibodies to diseases they hadn't encountered they are still just plain old humans. The fact that the Vulcans live so long and presumably have a low birth rate makes it even more ridiculous since you are talking about far fewer generations being born in that time period for natural selection to do its thing than pre modern man. One could try to argue that the Vulcans on Vulcan evolved faster than the romies because of peace but that makes even less sense because being at peace they should have lived longer lives making the time between generations even longer and with less pressure for natural selection to weed out traits than the romies on their primitive colony ships. The only huge difference is if I recall correctly the romulans committed genocide on their telepaths... Which again is dumb given all vulcans on screen have had the touch telepathy even if it was heavily shunned in Enterprise. That means in under 2000 years the telepaths knocked it out of the park and must have been having Ghengis Khan levels of sex while their mundane counterparts decided they didn't want any kids. Hence why I come up with head cannon stuff to explain away the silliness. The forehead thing has definitely been one that they haven't explained. The real reason was probably because it looked cool and visually makes it easier to differentiate who's the bad guy. But the TOS Romies didn't have the forehead, and the crew of the 2009 trek didn't universally have them either if I recall and they were TNG era romulans as well all be it time traveling ones. Of course even as sloppy as the Vulcan Romulan writing is at times at least its better than the licensed work stuff on Orion history. Omfg do a read on Orion history in memory beta some time. Talk about a convoluted pile of crap that goes on and on. Not to mention how unbelievable parts of it are. I mean really getting a population of billions over the course of centuries or sometimes even millennia working together in a conspiracy to get something done the fictional Illuminati would be childs play by comparison.... No, just no. Or the triumvirate race thing with greys and orange orions too. Im glad they never brought that shit on screen and made it official cannon, makes it hard as shit to pick and choose which parts to incorporate too when you are trying to make a rounded character who doesn't end up just being a 2 dimensional caricature. Anyways that's all sorry for the rant .
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Post by Lt Cmdr Billie Jo Spencer MD on Aug 4, 2016 15:54:15 GMT -5
I know my Romulan toon looks way cooler with the forehead ridges. ;P
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Post by Lt Cmdr Aria Xalot on Aug 4, 2016 15:59:21 GMT -5
I know my Romulan toon looks way cooler with the forehead ridges. ;P Mine has them with the slider at minimum.
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Post by Lt Cmdr Billie Jo Spencer MD on Aug 4, 2016 16:04:20 GMT -5
I know my Romulan toon looks way cooler with the forehead ridges. ;P Mine has them with the slider at minimum. What? Did they get brow ridge reduction surgery so they could look more Vulcan. Nemala says: "Embrace your Romulan heritage!"
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Ensign Sebetharen Adryan
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Post by Ensign Sebetharen Adryan on Aug 4, 2016 16:07:27 GMT -5
Today's the day for hole poking it seems. And not the good kind. Wink wink. But keep in mind what isn't canon is open for interpretation. I go by nothing from Memory Beta. The only thing I do go by is canon, which for many alien species is severely lacking. The 22nd has its own canon and we create new stuff all the time, all in the STO universe which in itself is certainly not canon. Not being bogged down by unofficial canon lets us explore unique story lines and gives birth to more creativity. Such as using Trek to write darker stories, which I love. I love that not everything works out in the end. The reason like GoT is so thrilling to people is BECAUSE it has these themes. So outside of Memory Alpha I only use references with a grain of salt, and fashion others as I would to make compelling characters and stories.
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Post by Lt Cmdr Aria Xalot on Aug 4, 2016 16:46:05 GMT -5
Today's the day for hole poking it seems. And not the good kind. Wink wink. But keep in mind what isn't canon is open for interpretation. I go by nothing from Memory Beta. The only thing I do go by is canon, which for many alien species is severely lacking. The 22nd has its own canon and we create new stuff all the time, all in the STO universe which in itself is certainly not canon. Not being bogged down by unofficial canon lets us explore unique story lines and gives birth to more creativity. Such as using Trek to write darker stories, which I love. I love that not everything works out in the end. The reason like GoT is so thrilling to people is BECAUSE it has these themes. So outside of Memory Alpha I only use references with a grain of salt, and fashion others as I would to make compelling characters and stories. True. And I only use it for ideas otherwise with most races you are out in the wind. I mean even Vulcans and Klingons probably the two most on screen races besides humans we know very little about them so you have to make up shit sometimes if that particular thing hasn't already been brought up. I also like how the fleet and even the post tng series are darker. I enjoy Trek but to me it's a C sometimes B- franchise. Most of that's from the 60's god awful era sci fi that birthed it and how it is extreme rose tinted glasses at others. I think it improved a lot after Rodeberry was out of the picture. Hell you can totally see were he majorly stole from Arthur C Clark if you read his old short stories. In particular where he writes about a group of alien species who have come together to explore called the federation... Having problems to overcome and the good guys not always winning is much more genuine than say Riker bitching about playing war games because it's beneath them yet turning around and being a strategic war fighting genus latter that episode.
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Post by Lt Cmdr Jonathan Cameron on Aug 4, 2016 17:23:55 GMT -5
Memory Beta is a great resource. It's certainly not hard fact in our universe, but it's great for inspiration. The warbird from Sunday is based on what is known of the Shadow class on Beta.
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Ensign Sebetharen Adryan
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Post by Ensign Sebetharen Adryan on Aug 4, 2016 17:36:29 GMT -5
I'm not saying I don't use it for inspiration. I just don't follow it to the letter. It would be a mistake to do so and limit freedom of creativity. You could have based it off the Shadow class and maybe created your own alternate design and called it Spectre class.
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