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Post by Captain T'Pang on Jan 14, 2013 22:25:27 GMT -5
I know, but then again I don't think anyone is in charge of it. I just know I have no authority over it. I'm technically in charge of the Wiki but I don't exercise any power over edits. We've had it for something like ten months so far and any disputes have been worked out between those involved without any kind of administrative intervention. I don't think this is an issue anyone has ever looked at before. And quite frankly I don't think that we use half or more of these skills during RP. I know T'Pang has a high physics skill and has never once been asked to make a roll against that skill (or any othe science skill) as a science officer it alwasy Starship sensors or computer operation. My only concern is that our skills system seems to have so little impact on our RP beyond a few skills check now and then. In fact our skills system apparently wasn't even considered when the position descriptions were written up. I think it is fair to want to see some consistency between the two. Keep in mind that another option is to modify the position descritions to fit our skill system rather than modifying the skills system to fit the position descriptions,
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Post by Kossuth on Jan 14, 2013 22:58:12 GMT -5
I'm technically in charge of the Wiki but I don't exercise any power over edits. We've had it for something like ten months so far and any disputes have been worked out between those involved without any kind of administrative intervention. I don't think this is an issue anyone has ever looked at before. And quite frankly I don't think that we use half or more of these skills during RP. I know T'Pang has a high physics skill and has never once been asked to make a roll against that skill (or any othe science skill) as a science officer it alwasy Starship sensors or computer operation. My only concern is that our skills system seems to have so little impact on our RP beyond a few skills check now and then. In fact our skills system apparently wasn't even considered when the position descriptions were written up. I think it is fair to want to see some consistency between the two. Keep in mind that another option is to modify the position descritions to fit our skill system rather than modifying the skills system to fit the position descriptions, I agree with you. I think the skill system we have is a little archaic. We could consolidate many skills and still have a perfectly fine system.
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Post by Kossuth on Jan 14, 2013 23:24:07 GMT -5
Personally, I would have preferred a system I call Expertise.
Starfleet Academy trains its graduates well, and I'm sure that any Academy graduate can operate systems within their division without too much work. We can assume that an Engineering graduate can do a routine change-out on an EPS conduit for example.
So I would start with the assumption that all routine tasks, or tasks that don't have a possibility for failure, are successful. Your character is well-trained in button pushing.
Rolls should be employed when some degree of expertise or creativity is involved.
Players can choose to advance expertise (specific skills) fast, or creativity (general skills) slowly.
Let me give you an example.
Start with a basic character sheet for a tactical officer:
(In this case, because he's a Tac, baseline score is 30.)
Tactical: - Tactical Creativity: 30 - Expertise: None
Security: - Security Creativity: 30 - Expertise: None
Science: - Science Creativity: 10 - Expertise: None
And so forth.
Now let's say you have 10 points to spend.
You want to become better at using ship's phasers.
Tactical: - Tactical Creativity: 30 - Expertise: -- Shipboard Phasers: 40
Now you have another 10 points to spend. You decide to put it into Tactical Creativity. It goes in at a 1/2 ratio.
Tactical: - Tactical Creativity: 35 - Expertise: -- Shipboard Phasers: 45
Now, if he encounters a Tactical skill that's NOT on his expertise list, he uses Tactical Creativity.
Or, if he wants to mix it up, he could put points into Science Creativity or some field of Scientific Expertise. Since his baseline score in Science is only 10, he's not going to match a Science officer, but he wouldn't be totally useless if he had to use a tricorder.
---
The math may need to be tweaked to make it less enticing to just boost Creativity, but you get the point.
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Post by Captain Erys Murai on Jan 14, 2013 23:27:38 GMT -5
Hey, go make a new thread if you wanna make up another system entirely. I'm just trying to make the one we've got now actually work for everyone.
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Post by Captain T'Pang on Jan 14, 2013 23:28:15 GMT -5
I don't think this is an issue anyone has ever looked at before. And quite frankly I don't think that we use half or more of these skills during RP. I know T'Pang has a high physics skill and has never once been asked to make a roll against that skill (or any othe science skill) as a science officer it alwasy Starship sensors or computer operation. My only concern is that our skills system seems to have so little impact on our RP beyond a few skills check now and then. In fact our skills system apparently wasn't even considered when the position descriptions were written up. I think it is fair to want to see some consistency between the two. Keep in mind that another option is to modify the position descritions to fit our skill system rather than modifying the skills system to fit the position descriptions, I agree with you. I think the skill system we have is a little archaic. We could consolidate many skills and still have a perfectly fine system. I am uncertain about archaic, but for the amount we actually use it it seems a bit cumbersome at times. Consolidating skills is one way I suppose. Another option is to find way to incorporate more and varied skills into our RP, beyond simple skill rolls. There are lots of skill that might make for some interesting character interactions if we chose use them, Sports, games, trivia skills, hobbies, etc. Even training skills and learning new ones would make excellent RP fodder, and example, the ship's doctor holds a workshop on learning first aid. Player might (at GMs whim) even earn a point or two to apply to thier first aid skill. if any skill roll in needed it would be instruction.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Jan 14, 2013 23:41:24 GMT -5
and back to the circle...I do not see just throwing more points as the solution.
Security / Tactical Branch School Curriculum..not everyone is going to be on the tactical station...many security officers do not have bridge postings. A Bridge tactical officer having more deflector operations would be a good thing, and it is up to the GM of that ship to catch that and make appropriate recommendations and accommodations in redistributing skills points.
I used Shantal as the example of an established character that got created one way but has had her duties changed on her and she is making due and the role playing and development potential available with that. I certainly could have reviewed the skills I thought I should have come trained with already and pushed for that...but did not.
Believe me, I already got an earful of all the engineering and ops skills an engineer should have...
The skill system and character creation is designed to accommodate a broad spectrum of characters form bridge personnel to non bridge officers to crew...it is broad on purpose to leave it up to best judgement of the GM and players to work out a character vision on an individual basis.
I've explain the intent of the system the best I can.
P.S. The only character on Adagio missing Astrogation is John I believe..T'ruri has 40..I ensured she could her primary role. Aidan took more Starship Weapon Tech and Personal Weapon tech over Deflector Ops...he like being hands on with the weapons modifying and even fixing them, Nathan covers Deflector ops...and John backs him up.
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Post by Captain Anja Malitzka on Jan 14, 2013 23:49:59 GMT -5
I am uncertain about archaic, but for the amount we actually use it it seems a bit cumbersome at times. Consolidating skills is one way I suppose. Another option is to find way to incorporate more and varied skills into our RP, beyond simple skill rolls. There are lots of skill that might make for some interesting character interactions if we chose use them, Sports, games, trivia skills, hobbies, etc. Even training skills and learning new ones would make excellent RP fodder, and example, the ship's doctor holds a workshop on learning first aid. Player might (at GMs whim) even earn a point or two to apply to thier first aid skill. if any skill roll in needed it would be instruction. I know that DGM Cygnus has, at least with me, gotten some use out of skills I started focusing in that don't usually get a lot of usage for rolls: Security Protocols and Instruction. In my RP, Malitzka is focused on improving her subordinates, having them prepared for as many possible situations as possible. During situations where the ship is being boarded, or large ground assaults have occured (Klingon Civil War), she made use of these skills to help determine how effective my security officers were at repelling the enemy. It's a combination of giving our DGMs a good idea of how our characters interact with the world, and them hopefully taking the threads we leave open to them and letting us use them. But overall, we do tend to fall into ruts with certain 'go-to' skills. If you're a science officer that specializes in Geology... not every episode is going to have some important problem with a planet, but there's probably going to be something that needs scanning. With K'tali I also took the main character approach Star Trek normally has, because everyone (especially in TNG) functioned as an adviser of sorts. When there wasn't some horrible tragedy that required turning the lower decks into triage (...Sentinel dealt with that a lot when I was CMO), I'd find a way to be an adviser of sorts, doing the main character discussions and dropping quotables. And being someone who's tried to run things for episodes: it can be a pain to even get people moving in the right direction let alone trying to work all their skills into things. Step 1 to being used is to make yourself active so that a DGM can feel confident that if they give you something in your wheelhouse, you'll use it.
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Post by Captain T'Pang on Jan 15, 2013 0:10:01 GMT -5
and back to the circle...I do not see just throwing more points as the solution. A big part of the solution is for the GMs to be aware of what skill set characters are going to be needing when they are rolled up and to advise players accordingly. Which for the most part seem to be how things are working right now. As far as modifying already existing characters I see no point, I say play the hand you were dealt. With repects to any modifications to the skill set that should be for the creation of future characters only. As I see it haveing too few points in or fewer than one might like is not a good enough reason to go back and rewrite a character or adding unearned points here and there. A good example is helmsman, despite our system not allocating any training for astrogation all of our fleet pilots seem to have managed to work that skill in there at some point. So no problems there.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Jan 15, 2013 0:10:12 GMT -5
The go to skills..yes. Though I encourage diversity..it may not show but Perception plays a lot more role for me than people know. Perception I use with most any socially interactive skills as "perceiving and adjusting" to the situations..is also plays in with Leadership and Diplomacy...and why Talia has a lot of success...she has 70, Perception and that is very helpful in reacting appropriately...so she gets synergy bonuses.
Though honestly with the player action and skill set, I find players do very similar actions all the time...it is like their groove and what they intend and want to do...
I reward creativity and excellence in role playing THAT is the biggest modifier..if you role play brilliance so awesomely I am in awe..I say roll...you got ungodly modifiers to succeed. You just sit there a crudgemuffin™ -pushes button- after I poke you a few times to do something, well there you go..roll no mods (might have a penalty)..have fun with that.
I also encourage people to develop leisure skills...things you may not think as part of job but are passions for your character...they can really help shape and define...plus gives the GMs alot of content we can eventually play off of. Shantal is a perfect example of this:
40 = Trivia (Mystic and Spiritual Rituals) 20 = Artistic Expression (Candle making and sculpting)
and
Dumb Luck: Once per session you cause an opponent’s attack roll targeting you, or the ship/vehicle you are currently on to automatically miss. Normal successes automatically fail, and 01-Auto Success attacks are instead reduced to a normal success result. Each character or ship/vehicle may only benefit once per session from this effect.. (protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise. )
These all tie together to her background and spiritualism, it has shaped how she copes and views things.. of course the GM has seen value in Shantal's crazy brand of voodoo, and plays off it...
P.S. The demoness went really hardcore with Teamwork re-rolls. I made it that the characters actually have the skill in question that was being used and are in a position to help the other character, then a teamwork can be called and that little "assistance" is role played out.
~the demoness
P.S.S. the demoness is pleased by this offering!
and who wrote this description on the wiki? -tail twitches-
DGM Cygnus is the GM for the USS Adagio-A. This character is synonymous with Xaelei Arnimane, and will often be represented in-game with that character.
A self-styled Demonness, Cygnus will often throw the characters under her charge into dire situations, purely for the enjoyment of watching them suffer (or quite possibly to test their character. One can never tell). In conversations, Cygnus will often use emotes such as "-eyes flash with fire-" to show her point of view in the given situation.
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Post by Kossuth on Jan 15, 2013 9:11:25 GMT -5
and who wrote this description on the wiki? -tail twitches-DGM Cygnus is the GM for the USS Adagio-A. This character is synonymous with Xaelei Arnimane, and will often be represented in-game with that character.A self-styled Demonness, Cygnus will often throw the characters under her charge into dire situations, purely for the enjoyment of watching them suffer (or quite possibly to test their character. One can never tell). In conversations, Cygnus will often use emotes such as "-eyes flash with fire-" to show her point of view in the given situation.
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Post by Captain Erys Murai on Jan 15, 2013 10:15:44 GMT -5
and who wrote this description on the wiki? -tail twitches-DGM Cygnus is the GM for the USS Adagio-A. This character is synonymous with Xaelei Arnimane, and will often be represented in-game with that character.A self-styled Demonness, Cygnus will often throw the characters under her charge into dire situations, purely for the enjoyment of watching them suffer (or quite possibly to test their character. One can never tell). In conversations, Cygnus will often use emotes such as "-eyes flash with fire-" to show her point of view in the given situation. That was me. I tried to add somewhat humorous descriptions for all the GM's. The goal was to to have a mostly accurate description without being too formal. If there's an issue with it, I'll do what I can to fix it.
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Post by Kossuth on Jan 15, 2013 10:29:49 GMT -5
and who wrote this description on the wiki? -tail twitches-DGM Cygnus is the GM for the USS Adagio-A. This character is synonymous with Xaelei Arnimane, and will often be represented in-game with that character.A self-styled Demonness, Cygnus will often throw the characters under her charge into dire situations, purely for the enjoyment of watching them suffer (or quite possibly to test their character. One can never tell). In conversations, Cygnus will often use emotes such as "-eyes flash with fire-" to show her point of view in the given situation. That was me. I tried to add somewhat humorous descriptions for all the GM's. The goal was to to have a mostly accurate description without being too formal. If there's an issue with it, I'll do what I can to fix it. Hey I didn't get a humorous description
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Jan 15, 2013 10:53:27 GMT -5
and who wrote this description on the wiki? -tail twitches-DGM Cygnus is the GM for the USS Adagio-A. This character is synonymous with Xaelei Arnimane, and will often be represented in-game with that character.A self-styled Demonness, Cygnus will often throw the characters under her charge into dire situations, purely for the enjoyment of watching them suffer (or quite possibly to test their character. One can never tell). In conversations, Cygnus will often use emotes such as "-eyes flash with fire-" to show her point of view in the given situation. That was me. I tried to add somewhat humorous descriptions for all the GM's. The goal was to to have a mostly accurate description without being too formal. If there's an issue with it, I'll do what I can to fix it. No no, the demoness approves, just wanted to say thank you -evil smile-
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Post by Captain Erys Murai on Jan 15, 2013 10:59:59 GMT -5
Hey I didn't get a humorous description You're the wiki admin, go write your own! -edit- K, now you have one. No no, the demoness approves, just wanted to say thank you -evil smile-Oh... well you're welcome.
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Post by Kossuth on Jan 15, 2013 11:32:24 GMT -5
You're the wiki admin, go write your own! -edit- K, now you have one. The fire god is pleased -mouth fills with coffee-
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