DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on May 28, 2013 0:58:43 GMT -5
I agree that an announcement should have happened. I was not in a position to make such an announcement, but would have. This topic has come up and it is water under the bridge at this point, so it fits as a response now as the timing is right that I can say something.
As for T'pang. That is sadly something that can happen when a ship is not actively meeting and about the only recourse is to stick it out until it is better, switch to an active ship with the existing character or a new one, or simply depart unhappy. Unless you have another idea you would like to be considered. The ball is in your court. Are there issues on Sentinel with Doctor Spencer that you feel you do not get to express or are ignored?
So what is your fleet idea to fix it all?
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Post by Captain T'Pang on May 28, 2013 1:21:45 GMT -5
That is just the problem most people depart un-happy. I have been struggling for two years with this issue. 90%+ of every one who has joined this fleet has quit. No one else has had the stick to it attitude like me when it came to the Endeavour. Every other command character that has ever joined has flaked out on us and quit. At this point the only reason the T'Pang character hasn't transferred to another ship is that their is no other place for that character anywhere in the fleet. She has literally been promoted out of any place in the fleet. I really don't expect anyone to care at this point, but I intend to complain anyway. So don't worry about it, its not your job anyway.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on May 28, 2013 2:02:26 GMT -5
I can only help people that care enough to come to me, and the same holds true for all the Game Masters and Captains. I am not willing to speculate why Endeavour has struggled, but I am certain everyone has a opinion on the matter.
T'pang is welcome to join Adagio, we always have room in the science department, as for being the first officer on Adagio or another ship...I do not see any current openings at this time.
I'll level with you, T'pang. When you stopped playing on Adagio and gave your reason, I felt you used a polite excuse to depart the ship and did not want to work things out with me. Most leave with a polite excuse or simply vanish saying nothing, if someone does not respect me or care enough to talk to me...what am I supposed to do?...and what are we supposed to do as a role playing community?
~the demoness
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Post by Captain Anja Malitzka on May 28, 2013 2:22:48 GMT -5
The biggest issue in the fleet is player retention and attraction. I've been here for over a year and on the Adagio, I am the newest character still active (unless Thaelo Kal returns). Of the people who joined the ship, most failed to last more than one or two sessions, and that's on one of the reliable ships. The Sentinel has seen some more success, but even it is heavily staffed with pre-existing characters and player alts.
Beyond that, it's not uncommon for there to be no new player applications for a month or more at a time. These problems mean that either we're offering a product that nobody wants or that we're doing a terrible job of selling it. Obviously not everyone is interested in being part of this sort of machine, but I'm inclined to say it's the latter. I've seen people get approved, show up for a week, then never even appear on the forums again. I've seen people do a basic application, then get to the part where they need to make a character sheet and give up. I've seen people apply, get told that the ship they wanted to join is no longer taking part on the night their resources had told them it was. I even saw one person apply, have his application go ignored for two weeks, then get mad and leave.
For the people who don't enjoy the way we do things there isn't much we can do, but the rest of these issues should be correctable. One of our top priorities should be making certain that our information, especially for ship times, is accurate. If you go to a store with an ad in the paper that says they're open saturdays at 10 and it's closed and the door says something completely different, you're probably not going back.
Our system is also kind of a mess, I got through it because I'm experienced with roleplaying systems and so this was just trying to reapply new information. For other people, it's a giant wall that they might not want to have to scale. I doubt we'll completely redo the system, because overall it works and that's more than we can say for sure about anything that might replace it, but we do need to make certain we're offering as much support as possible to people who might be intimidated.
Those aside, we do also need to start improving how we advertise, but we need to make certain we have our shop in order before we send out the fliers.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on May 28, 2013 2:37:07 GMT -5
Where do you suggest we advertise Anja? Myself and Talia regularly post on the Star Trek Online recruiting forum. I also occasionally put Adagio events on social hubs and planet to be seen. When I ran socials (prior to being a game master), again they were in common hubs in games so people could see us role playing.
Applications are handled by the game master of the ship being applied to. I act on all Adagio applications promptly. All new players are interviewed prior to joining. I even worked with other game masters if a person is undecided to be guests for some events on each ship.
Perhaps if more people were involved in recruiting efforts of some kind and more actively representing in game, we'd have more applications.
I am also open to feedback on retention. I do my best to keep Adagio players informed and involved.
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Post by DGM Soft Kitty on May 28, 2013 4:45:02 GMT -5
All of the points brought up by T and Anja are valid and yes many of them are being addressed. For the application it has always been policy to allow the DGM of the selected ship handle the application of a player wishing to join said ship. Not only that but I know Cyg does this and i belive so do Koss and Q , that we send a forum pm to the new applicant to help them with their character sheet and tell them we are there for any questions they might have. few of our newest members such as Har and Xem can tell you Ive done just that...even helped them fit new rules in line with our old ones to help highlight the direction they wish to take their characters. And yes I do agree with T's take on the PC/NPC admiralty issue and as such that is a topic under discussion in the DGM forums. Especially how best to deal with it. Yes such an announcemnt about my stepping in for Nyoko as Senior DGM and Assistant Admin for the fleet shouldve been made but Nyoko had not counted on being waylaid by RL issues affecting to the degree they have. So for now as they say 'the buck does stop here' I do blame myself to a degree for our difficulty with recruitment but Cyg is right every few days I do post our fleet's info and event dates and even update our ongoing story arcs in the online fleet recruitment forum. So far it is the best I can do at the moment. I am aware of such issues and we are working on them. Any suggestions are very welcome and please feel free to send me a PM with any you might have. The same goes for any on going complaints. As always I will do my best to see them get worked out for anyone who has them. Quite a few in the fleet can tell you guys I am sorta tireless when I try to help someone. Sorry for the long speech here but I wanted to add my voice to the discussions... To the original point of the thread as I said before B I do like very much the work and detail put into the Fleet symbols:) Nice job on them hon!
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Post by Vice Admiral Brian Donaldson on May 28, 2013 8:01:04 GMT -5
Thanks Talia for appreciating my creative work.
------------
As for the rest of stuff brought up on here...
All i can say is... what we are currently doing (when it pertains to the community as a whole) is not working.
If it was working, we wouldnt be having the problems we have today. Sure, we would have problems, but not these.
The 22nd Mobile Recruitment Thread on the STO forums isnt enough or isnt working at all. When we do get new players, half of them lose interest in their small corner of our Fleet's RP Story becasue it isnt engaging to them the way they would like (and they lose interest). Players on ships have almost no relationship with most players from different ships (unless they have an alt on that ship, but still its very rare). Our characters get played only a small percentage of the total time available in the week, we end up spending maybe 90% or more of our time interacting in this Fleet OOCly with each other and less then 10% actually RPing.
If we're having trouble with membership numbers, our recruitment methods arent working. If players lose interest in the RP, our GMs need to change how they do the RP... what they are doing now isnt working. If players and characters dont feel like they are in a Fleet and see everyone as a member of their family, we need to change that. If we spend more time talking OOCly to one another then we do RPing with each other, we're doing something wrong.
Plain and simple, what we are doing and how we conduct our business isnt working.
Even our creator has lost interest and is getting their RP fix elsewhere.
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Post by Kossuth on May 28, 2013 8:16:41 GMT -5
Like we say in Jamaica, "Darg-flea tell him pickeny him mustn't say him dead till him ketch pon finger nail."
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Post by Vice Admiral Brian Donaldson on May 28, 2013 8:33:03 GMT -5
Like we say in Jamaica, "Darg-flea tell him pickeny him mustn't say him dead till him ketch pon finger nail." Are you saying the show isnt over...till its over (kinda thing)? Dont count us out just yet?
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Post by Kossuth on May 28, 2013 8:51:03 GMT -5
I'm really confident that we can turn this slump around. The Pilgrim looks like it will be off to a great start. This will give us three solid core ships, which is fantastic. There is the issue of the Endeavour, but we're still mulling over what to do with that.
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Post by Captain Joyaus Dalun on May 28, 2013 8:54:29 GMT -5
If there's anything i can do to help, let me know.
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Post by DGM Soft Kitty on May 28, 2013 9:25:49 GMT -5
If we're having trouble with membership numbers, our recruitment methods arent working. If players lose interest in the RP, our GMs need to change how they do the RP... what they are doing now isnt working. I disagree here , ive had nothingbut success and good turnout on the Sentinel each week. The players seem happy and very responsive to how Ive been running things. I've patterned how I do things based on how Cyg runs them on the Adagio which has been a very successful ship in the fleet for the last two years. Kos has a strong launch of the Pilgrim and is working fairly well with the other two ships...so I think to a degree how we have been doing things is a solid foundation. Well I will note below, this week's events did show concern and respect for the Sentinel and her crew during the Adagio event and it was returned during the interaction and rp in a similar matter for concern about the Adagio and her crew from the Sentinel gang! If they are worried about one another...they care... I see some fantastic rp between folks each and every time im on and for all three events Im a part of...Liz and Trench's convos alone are priceless to me I cant comment on the last part but I know we are in a slump but I see things starting to improve a bit...Let me explain some. Starting with this If there's anything i can do to help, let me know. -HUGS- Totally the spirit Joy! and I am with Koss, like my daddy always says "Never stop fighting 'til the fight is done" I am aware as are most of us B that things are dragging in some areas but in others we are holding our own. Successes and more outreach to the player base is what is going to grow our fleet. As to one thing you mentioned about how the ships have no cross character interaction, I have to say Hooey... I noticed during the last Sentinel event some genuine concern over the fate of their fellow Starship the Adagio and I know characters like Liz and Erys from the Pilgrim and Sentinel not only rp from time to time..they stay in touch. I also know Xem and Liz have discovered one another and have rp'd...I know Tibby formerly of the Adagio has connections there and has rp'd them out. As has Xea with Liz and several members of both the Sentinel and Ayanami/Pilgrim during fleet socials at the starbase...Even Nassan and T'Ruri found some neat rp and common ground as Ace pilots... Ive not only seen it...Ive watched it on the boards and even GM'd some of the events. Now with the inclusion of the Pilgrim and Tibby's Admiral commanding TF221 we have three ships now in the mix sharing mission in the same space...which builds common ground. So there is a growing number of connections through socials and rp between the two ships..Ive found it helps as the DGM using the ACCI system to bring up the other ships when applicable to help flesh out our fleet and add greater depth to the world in which we rp. That stated...we know there are some issues but in the end we are now at the issue of what to do. Things are being done...if you do not think they are enough gang..Im open to suggestions and like Joy just did offer to help and lets get fleet rolling further along! We have three ships in motion...which is better than it was last month at this time! To me that is progress...I say we build on it! Im here til the end no matter what! I love you guys and this fleet and I believe in it. I still have fun with it...and I enjoy the rp fix it gives me. We have some really great role players in this fleet and the feedback I get from the Sentinel and for the most part on the Adagio is mostly good and I know I thoroughly enjoy rping on Tuesdays with the Pilgrim gang As long as there is fun...the fight is still on!
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Post by Vice Admiral Brian Donaldson on May 28, 2013 9:42:16 GMT -5
Im sorry Talia, but most of what you just said sounded like you think everything is mostly A-ok and the problems we do have are minor and easily fixed with little disruption to the status-quo.
Sure some players have connections with other players from other ships, they either have alts playing with them, had alts their, or GM both groups. What about the players who only RP with a single Group... say we had a player who plays the Helmsman aboard the Endeavour. She's only every played on the Endeavour with the Endeavour players for the 3 hours they meet on Saturday afternoons. How can this player have any connection to say... Malitzka. And if they do have a friendship outside of the RP and on the forums OOCly, how does that player's character feel about what goes on aboard the Adagio or the Sentinel or what happens to his/her fellow members of Starfleet. Are they just faceless names on a Roster, people and places only seen on a computer screen deployment readout, or does that character feel a real connection to the other characters in the fleet as much as they do the other characters on their ship?
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Post by DGM Soft Kitty on May 28, 2013 9:42:25 GMT -5
Oh also B! I am working on several updated LCARS for the new TF deployments you've been proposing and working so hard on to add some more depth to fleet's feel. Just thought I would drop that in as well
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Post by Captain Anja Malitzka on May 28, 2013 9:54:51 GMT -5
On the note of ship to ship interaction... in the time I've been here, I've seen multiple attempts to get off-episode RP started. The Adagio had its own night for that when I started, but that ended up dying off inside a month or two (I at least partially blame some IC drama for that). And there was the Mok'bara class that only lasted three sessions as far as I know.
I, personally, attempted to jump start a Friday night on Starbase roleplaying event, but it was somewhat anemic to begin with, and by week three I was sitting along on the Starbase for three hours. We've also had attempts to start up fleet events to complete in game activities, but those also ended up not working out.
So the current situation is that we've tried a lot of things to get more cross-ship and off-episode RP going, but it doesn't seem as though that's what enough people really want. Or those that do want that can't get schedules to work.
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