Andorian Genders - Canon vs Soft Canon (spoilers)

[Captain Erys Murai]

The question came up last night regarding Andorian Genders, so I thought it would be a good idea to lay out the facts pertaining to the issue.


Canon:
- In Enterprise, Thy'lek Shran (a male Andorian) mates with Jhamel, (an Aenar female), and they have a daughter, Talla. No mention is given to any other mates, which implies that Shran and Jhamel were able to conceive and bear Talla by themselves.

- In TNG, Data makes the statement "Andorian marriages typically require groups of four people, unless...." but is interrupted before completing the sentence. Some believe this is due to four genders (see "Pocket Books" below), while others believe it simply refers to four people being involved, similar to how Denobulans each have three spouses per person (i.e. Phlox had three wives, and each of his wives had three husbands). It may also simply mean that marriages require four people to be involved in the wedding, but the statement is never completed or explained.


Soft-Canon:
- Pocket Books: In several novels by this publisher, Andorians are stated to have four genders, split between the apparent male (chan and thaan) and female (shen and zhen). All four genders are required for procreation, with a thaan and chan fertilizing a shen, then moving the embryo to a zhen.
-- These novels also depict an impending reproductive crisis on the Andorians, with severe chromozoidal damage affecting fertility to the point that extinction is an inevitability. (Highlight for spoilers) This crisis is narrowly averted after Doctor Bashir finds and delivers a cure (at the cost of his own career).

- The Eyes of the Beholders gives a somewhat different view of Andorian reproduction, though I'm not sure what that actually is.


STO-specific:

- In STO, the reproductive crisis never actually occurred, and is therefore a non-issue. In fact, no mention of Andorians is given in the pre-STO lore (found here) aside from a couple references to events that happened in Enterprise.

- STO previously had the four genders listed in parentheses beside the normal gender (eg "male (chan, thaan)" and "female (shen, zhen)"), but these extra genders have been removed at some point within the last year. A forum post indicated this was due to an order from CBS, which suggests that the four genders are considered non-canon.



Since we have three Andorians in the fleet, I thought it best to simply provide you with the facts I have available, so you can make your decision more easily.

[Lt Commander Marcus Aquila]

From what i can tell all of our andorians have been playing with the idea of a 4 person kreth in mind.

also might want to add a spoiler tag to this. You gave away portions of the latest book in the fall series.

[Captain Erys Murai]

Nov 4, 2013 12:35:58 GMT -5 Lt Commander Marcus Aquila said:

From what i can tell all of our andorians have been playing with the idea of a 4 person kreth in mind.

I know Talia was, but I'm not sure what Zenov was doing (or if the issue had even come up for him). Nassan was actually the one who brought it up last night, which is why I posted this. Additionally, I've also been asked by a few other people outside our fleet what our position on it was. At the time, I didn't have a firm answer for them, and I wasn't even sure where I stood on it personally.

I do have my own position on it now (which is probably evident from how I worded the original post), but I do want to let the Andorian players decide with as little influence from me as possible.

Nov 4, 2013 12:35:58 GMT -5 Lt Commander Marcus Aquila said:

also might want to add a spoiler tag to this. You gave away portions of the latest book in the fall series.

I knew I forgot something... sorry about that.

[Captain Anja Malitzka]

Nassan is a Shen; based on the main Andorian character in the fleet, it seemed we were following the four-way marriage idea and I believe the game still had the four genders at the time (or at least they did when I made my first Andorian character...near launch). I had no reason to believe that it wasn't canon since everything I knew pointed to that (I never got too far into Enterprise. The main time I tried to watch the series, it got taken down off CBS's website or whichever affiliated website was hosting them).

As it stands, I'm willing to ignore all of the biological implications of the marriage in groups of fours and simply place it as a cultural decision. Create a family of two pairs in a militaristic people makes some sense, because even if one dies, there's still three to care for each other. I was curious about the status of the reproductive crisis because it did have a direct affect on roleplay concerns for my character, but since that's not an issue from every point of view (it never happened or it's been fixed by the time STO takes place), that does loosen some things up.

[DGM Soft Kitty]

STO-specific:

- In STO, the reproductive crisis never actually occurred, and is therefore a non-issue. In fact, no mention of Andorians is given in the pre-STO lore (found here) aside from a couple references to events that happened in Enterprise.

- STO previously had the four genders listed in parentheses beside the normal gender (eg "male (chan, thaan)" and "female (shen, zhen)"), but these extra genders have been removed at some point within the last year. A forum post indicated this was due to an order from CBS, which suggests that the four genders are considered non-canon.

Terrific , the one thing that made them somewhat exotic and alien is now considered non canon. Basically tosses out the last few years of Tali's rp to suddenly dump it all. I found it a neat idea and went with the idea since STO had the four genders listed, it to my opinion added depth and an exotic feel to the race. So not every star trek race is basically a 'forehead different cookie cutter' race.

If its offically not canon I can go with Anja's description of the marriage but for me it pales the race a bit to do it this way. AsI said it was a unique take on what should be a universe of diversity not uniformity. -shrugs- I can stil play her this way if the idea is not to be put into place...and staywith hard canon.

Im just not thrilled by the news is all.

meh to be honest.

[Captain Erys Murai]

Most things in novels aren't considered canon anyway. It's more a question of what we as RPers accept as canon. For example, nothing in STO is canon anywhere except STO and any groups who accept it.

That's why I posted this as an opening for discussion. You as Andorians should decide.

And even if there are only two genders, groups of four are canon, so it really shouldn't change all that much since the reproduction crisis was never an issue in STO anyway.

[Captain Anja Malitzka]

Given the fact that the four genders has been played as canon by this fleet since, I'm assuming, its inception, I see no reason to change it. There was no grand announcement about this to my knowledge, and until they officially state something in Star Trek, we should stick with it. The one known example to the contrary is also between an Andorian individual and an unusual subspecies, which could completely change things.

I do, however, refuse to budge on the four party marriages, and can come up with any number of reasons for it to exist that aren't biological if need be.

[Captain Erys Murai]

The only thing that gives me pause on the marriage part, is that the actual line is "usually requires. . . unless", which means there are cases where less than four can be married. That leads me to think it's more of a cultural thing than a biological requirement.