DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Jun 10, 2014 17:17:08 GMT -5
Yeah but some of our character sheets are a bit ridiculous While I appreciate your opinion, no one has sited your ideas as "ridiculous", perhaps extending the same courtesy is in order? It is hard to have an open discussion about change when people feel their ideas attacked or view with scorn...it puts them on the defensive. ~the demoness
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Post by Lt Commander Marcus Aquila on Jun 10, 2014 17:20:16 GMT -5
Who was I attacking?
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Post by DGM Soft Kitty on Jun 10, 2014 17:22:00 GMT -5
Yeah but some of our character sheets are a bit ridiculous Keep in mind too hon, many of those sheets reflect years of aquired rp earned experience. Some of the older characters have been with the fleet since the system was implemented. Such a nerf might strip away the aquired experience through so hard core role playing. I dont just mean the leadership characters either, some of the junior officers like T'Ruri started as a simple cadet and has grown in rank and exps spend since day one of the system. I am not entirely with the idea of peeling away earned experience points from older characters that you know actually showed up and kicked into the events and added great depth to the experience. That is my only issue with a 'nerf' especially since with the rare exception of a DGM approved situation of a given skill. All skills are capped at the 80 point mark. In the instance where it has been approved it almost never exceeds a 5 point over the cap to allow a rare 85 in any given skill. As I said before I am open to change and dont oppose a better system, I just believe that such a conversion needs to take into account the experience earned by the players, long or short timers. These were rewards for great rp, imagination and creativity in many events over the years. Which is a concern of mine for any conversion.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Jun 10, 2014 17:23:49 GMT -5
Whoever developed the system and allowed for such ridiculous character sheets, along with players that chose to develop their characters in a ridiculous manner.
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Post by DGM Soft Kitty on Jun 10, 2014 17:24:59 GMT -5
I didnt see your suggestion as an attack hon, I see what you are saying and offered my response. I took frm yur meaning how advanced some older player's character sheets appear when in comparsion to others. I think what might be being missed is the amount of rewarded experience which have naturally have acummulated over the years since this was implemented. That is what i assumed you meant by ridiculous I suppose.
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Post by Lt Commander Marcus Aquila on Jun 10, 2014 17:51:32 GMT -5
The problem is the system has hard caps in it, but gms can override those, which leads to sillyness even jax has one but in order to get it he sacrificed being good at anything else. Its ok to have powerful characters its just you can't let personal feelings override what is probably best for the game system. And disparate systems are not going to be analogues.
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Post by Kossuth on Jun 10, 2014 17:53:07 GMT -5
Gotta admit, I haven't read 90% of the responses, but let me add this: the current system is based on a Star Trek RPG from the 70s, a time when pen and paper RPGs valued complexity and lots of different skills. Pen and paper has trended toward a simpler system in recent years, and for good reason. I don't think we should scrap the current system but consolidating a few skills would be a really good improvement.
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Post by DGM Soft Kitty on Jun 10, 2014 18:25:52 GMT -5
I am gonna be clear on my take on this. Any conversion that in anyway punishes the effort made by many long standing members of the fleet who have worked hard to achieve the rewards and experience points that make them um..'powerful' , I am going to be opposed too. I have seen quite a few here in this fleet, leadership and regular officer in the fleet both work so very hard in events. To reduce this in a conversion to a new system that may reduce their hard earned rewards (ie. by dedicated effort in role playing, regular attendance and participation and creativity and imagination over the years..years in this fleet) i sorta feel is almost a punishment.
Alot of players and their efforts have been awarded on the Adagio, Ayanami, Sentinel and Pilgrim. Many of the older characters have been around since before the conversion to the current d100 system in our third season....two years almost two and half...and 5 seasons later worth of experience are the rewards for that hard dedicated work.
Again I am going to say this, I am NOT opposed to a new system. I am only here to voice my opinion in the regard that any conversion needs to also take into consideration the work and experience currently held by the players that earned it. I do not think i am so wrong in this, only looking to see such effort is rewarded and maintained. I understand we have characters who are being rp'd as lifers with over twenty years experience but are new comapared to some others in the fleet who have half of such service time but oocly have been in the fleet over two years in the current system.
Honestly no matter what system is used that is going to happen. I am fine with finding a new system, just not with nerfing the rewards given to players that as my Dad would call it 'busted their humps for the fleet' in IC rp in offical events.
That is my only real worry here.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Jun 10, 2014 18:41:45 GMT -5
I share Kitty's concern as well as need proof any new system, be it refinement of our current one or brand new one, needs to be just that...an improvement. Meaning the hard work needs to be done prior to giving it a try to develop it while accounting for current needs, how characters will convert and how they will develop moving forward. The basic system then has to have enough merit that the players vote to want to give it a try and it will be measured against what we have in place now, in practice and in event.
I have put enough work in on the "ridiculous" system, so someone else will have to do the work to present something new that covers all the bases and then demonstrate first hand how it works in practice running event content.
~the demoness
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Post by Kossuth on Jun 10, 2014 18:58:24 GMT -5
As a player of a character who was around well before the stats system (I think about 3.5 years in the fleet so far) I don't see the suggestion as a nerf or anything. Just a consolidation.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Jun 10, 2014 19:06:07 GMT -5
Think you missed something in the overall discussion Tibby.... Cyg my system would require a re-roll of sorts as it is level based. as far as character sheets are concerned everyone would be "nerfed". Aside from Liam's system, if we do away with skills like Erys suggests...what happen to training and character creation...what happens to the points in those vanishing skills player might already have invested? We get to tread the dangerous ground of what is a "skill of value" and what is not...it is not something I am personally comfortable with, since I tend to see possibility and potential in quite alot.
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Post by Kossuth on Jun 10, 2014 19:17:52 GMT -5
Think you missed something in the overall discussion Tibby.... Cyg my system would require a re-roll of sorts as it is level based. as far as character sheets are concerned everyone would be "nerfed". Aside from Liam's system, if we do away with skills like Erys suggests...what happen to training and character creation...what happens to the points in those vanishing skills player might already have invested? We get to tread the dangerous ground of what is a "skill of value" and what is not...it is not something I am personally comfortable with, since I tend to see possibility and potential in quite alot. I'm not supportive of the re-rolling idea, but we can still consolidate skills in a fair way. If you consolidate 2 skills, as long as the resulting skill is at least as high as the highest skill, then everything is still fair. Here's an example. Let's say you have Leadership 40 and Diplomacy 20, and these skills will be combined to just Leadership. As long as your new Leadership skill is at least 40, you are no worse off than before. In fact, you've benefited from the change. In cases where this might seriously break a character sheet, the player can be given a certain amount of points as compensation or whatever for the change. I can't think of any circumstance like that, but it's a good contingency plan.
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Post by DGM Soft Kitty on Jun 10, 2014 19:23:42 GMT -5
-giggles- Well Leadership and Diplomacy are very diff skills Tibs But I get your example
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Jun 10, 2014 19:25:07 GMT -5
Needs to see it fully fleshed out with training and character creation, how all present characters will look converted along with how a character will develop in the future over time and participation and then finally the system in action to fairly judge it as an improvement or not. My stance and offer of what I willing to do has not changed and is outlined numerous times in this topic.
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Post by Lt Commander Marcus Aquila on Jun 10, 2014 19:26:51 GMT -5
Yeah the basis of my system wouldn't necessarily be a nerf in that the characters would actually get new abilties. and guarunteed success once a play session etc, but it woudl be a nerf in that there would no longer be an analogue to say
Marksmanship-80
that's what i meant.
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