DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 8, 2011 15:16:33 GMT -5
You are not mistaken. The Galaxy design is with the nacelles have twin warp coils in each nacelle. it is discussed alot on the STO forum too forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=121746&page=2So a Galaxy X with 3 nacelles still has 6 warp coils. If we are trying to get anal with "canon" I think the Galaxy X is far easier to "justify" than the Defiant and Bird of Prey with integrated warp coils built into the hull and not on nacelles. /shrug It's actually pretty easy to justify for me. There's two reasons nacelles were put on struts originally: 1. Health hazzard due to radiation/plasma leaks. Warp plasma is unstable, so the least little thing can cause catastrophic damage. The designers of starships decided that moving the nacelles away from the crew would keep them safer. 2. Warp field stability. Moving the nacelles away from the ship allows them to establish a more stable warp field around the ship. However, in TOS the Federation and human warp flight was only 100 years old. In the 200+ years since TOS, we've improved technology and developed new technology. So the two above reasons are no longer as valid as they used to be. However, keep in mind too that both the Defiant and Bird of Prey suffered from having their warp coils so close to the ship. Both ships were limited to about Warp 8, and the Defiant at least required massive amounts of energy just to maintain its warp field. Also, the Defiant's nacelles were on the outer-most edge of the ship, and the ship itself is only ~150m long. Shuttle warp nacelles are actually closer to the crew, and even shuttles can travel at high warp (at least for short durations). In other words, it's very possible to do in Trek terms, but there is a price. Then how are Klingon Birds of Prey getting away with it when chasing the Enterprise NX into the Expanse? Plus of course people would site Klingons should not look like how they do...again...more proof that Trek cannot keep it's own "canon" consistent. So I think it is a little silly to try and be a "Canon Nazi"
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 8, 2011 14:50:43 GMT -5
Just shows how fluid "canon" is and how everyone's contributions influence each other. /shrug Star Trek is a place where "rules" themselves are rather..fluid. Even in our world things like the Bible gets...revision based on the times and new...interpretations. New "rules" -wink- I am kinda shocked people get so...restrictive in their visions. The creator of Star Trek envisioned humanity evolving and developing into an enlightened species capable to great wonders with their unlimited imaginations and guided by a strong sense of moral ethics and self accountability. From the top link it seems that odd numbered nacelles are explained by: each nacelle having a pair of warp field coils. But Andy only minored in engineering, so.... I'm actually fine with most designs as long as it looks good and things have a purpose. I'm not a fan of the gimick-y or uber designs (be they fan or canon). You are not mistaken. The Galaxy design is with the nacelles have twin warp coils in each nacelle. it is discussed alot on the STO forum too forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=121746&page=2So a Galaxy X with 3 nacelles still has 6 warp coils. If we are trying to get anal with "canon" I think the Galaxy X is far easier to "justify" than the Defiant and Bird of Prey with integrated warp coils built into the hull and not on nacelles. /shrug
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 8, 2011 11:51:57 GMT -5
*sigh* I said 6 because 5 -- and even more so, 7 (as well as the Gal-X's 3) -- violates Roddenberry's Rules of Starship Design that nacelles must be in pairs. I'm sure that violation of the Rules is one reason why so many hate the Gal-X. Edit: Also, remember that nacelles are power consumers, not power producers, so the more nacelles a ship has, the more power is used, so that the more power must be generated by the warp core(s) (although, I'm sure could be scaled so that 4 small nacelles would use the same power as two larger nacelles). Just shows how fluid "canon" is and how everyone's contributions influence each other. /shrug Star Trek is a place where "rules" themselves are rather..fluid. Even in our world things like the Bible gets...revision based on the times and new...interpretations. New "rules" -wink- I am kinda shocked people get so...restrictive in their visions. The creator of Star Trek envisioned humanity evolving and developing into an enlightened species capable to great wonders with their unlimited imaginations and guided by a strong sense of moral ethics and self accountability.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 7, 2011 18:53:51 GMT -5
if I am not mistaken this is idea been bumped around the fan community for a long time. The Dreadnoughts having three nacelles. It also got incorporated in FASA's Star Fleet Battles back in the late 80's. I think we are seeing the blend of fan culture and official writer/designer culture mixing. Something as long standing as Star Trek is bound to have a lot of interconnected and inspired influences. 1979 www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/uss-federation-class-dreadnought.phpthis is an SSD (or Ship Systems Display) from Starfleet Battles..you will see the "C Warp" or center warp drive located off on the left side of the sheet..just done to make things fit the formatting when they made the SSD. Again..3 nacelles. www.smileylich.com/sfb/ssd/fed-xdn.gif
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 3, 2011 18:03:09 GMT -5
That is up to her and Oracle and whoever. Exactly the reason I have little to add in commentary about the Adagio..ultimately it is her desire. How much time do I see the Adagio on my computer screen? Rare as fallen snow in hell?
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 3, 2011 17:55:37 GMT -5
I must have missed the hurtful comments. Nice pictures, though I rarely discuss aesthetics. I do not log into the test server. I dislike testing, I do enough of that at work...Plus my efforts in the live environment take up the majority of my game time.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 3, 2011 16:13:55 GMT -5
This was directed at me... I know. I'm... not very good at this. No it was not. It is something I think we all need a reminder in. I have been in the fleet a long time and role played here and in general, a long time. I'll leave it at that since I feel a long resume of experience has little weight in the here and now. This is mostly a recurring issue I have seen as a player and as a GM. It is one of those things you can count on from me, is if there is an ongoing persistent issue, I will address it -evil demonic Borg wink- ~cyg
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 3, 2011 15:29:12 GMT -5
I ask we all have faith in each other. I ask we all have faith in the GMs. Many things will happen that do not appear to make sense or defy your understanding and belief how things should be. Our goal as GMs is to involve everyone in role play and give everyone the best opportunity to interact and shine. We will adjust and bend things to make that happen. Star Trek is the back drop..the canvas we use, but the brush strokes in creating the stories, events, and opportunities are our own and we take a lot of liberties with our brushes and paints The events are meant to create tension, excitement, conflict....drama. We need to clearly remember and guard against in character and out of character separation turning into in and out of character being the same. No one is immune. We all slip when emotions run high and the lines of in and out of character blur and slip into being one. When that happens I asked we all take a deep breath and remember to have faith in each other. Remember too GMs are not perfect. We are just like you and we make mistakes. We will do our best to improve what we can, and if something is a consistent problem we will listen, consider and make changes. Lastly I want to stress for me personally. I will challenge each and every one of you. Your character's will be pushed to his or her limits and put into situations when they will experience setbacks and failures. I ask you avoid from being jumping to knee jerked, out of character reactions and go with events and role play them to their fullest. I promise you that you will be given every opportunity to overcome and turn it around and succeed.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 2, 2011 23:27:22 GMT -5
I guess I need to see your idea more fully fleshed out John. Right now it sounds more like a sales pitch to me. Much like the Genesis Torpedo, and we all know how well THAT turned out... -evil demonic wink-
I do think a single point of failure is an issue. How is "one dedicated person" going to see to the needs of all the Academy members of varied times and days and bring that entry level live role playing experience and overall support?
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 2, 2011 22:41:27 GMT -5
Not a bad ideas John and everyone, but what team going to run this Academy and accommodate all the different days and time slots possible? Much of the general back story is required in the initial application. The other issue is the new player are not seeing the real experience by interacting with it.
I would rather see people put ships that match their time slot and be more like an intern or in training. Not officially assigned as part of the main crew, but can watch and interact (if they are comfortable) as if they were. This will involve them, let them interact and see the full experience and get ideas on their own to possible alter their character to fit their vision better and gets used to us and really see if the 22nd is for them and let us see if they are a good match for us. It would not take much extra administration, and could let us divide the surplus (if we get a surplus) of these new members and characters throughout the fleet and when we have enough to get a new ship going, get her started and them assigned into key roles on a new ship or if key positions open up on existing ships due to people leaving...transfer a new member from the pool to fill it.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 1, 2011 14:43:25 GMT -5
Fair point, I'll sign for the show of support.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 1, 2011 14:16:43 GMT -5
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 1, 2011 13:37:24 GMT -5
I think the moderators will point out that Ten Forward subforum is for role playing. I am not certain they be more willing to promote more separation than is described by the subforum.
Ten Forward Introduce yourself, share fan art, fan fiction, role play, and make friends here! Romulan Ale is still prohibited.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 1, 2011 13:31:02 GMT -5
This is me putting my guild leader hat on for a moment. Commitment is something that the leadership team must have, they have to inspire the rest of the guild to remain committed. This also stems from the fact that I view guild leadership not as a privilege, but as a community service. Being a GM takes a lot of work, a lot of dedication. Sure, there are perks on occasion, but the responsibilities far outweigh the perks. Free to Play is going to be an opportunity to inspire more players to the cause, but the onus is on the leadership team to earn their loyalty and inspire them to stay. The goal being to inspire others to remain loyal to the guild AND generate that feeling in their fellow guild members. Nothing breeds success like success. Agreed Scott. I also see a lot pf potential, but I also see we will need to kiss a lot frogs to get a prince or more work to separate the wheat from the chaff. Nyoko pointed out Neverwinter Nights. That required commitment from people to set up and run the private servers to play on and the people in creating and maintaining the game world and content. The players actually have to look to these private servers and have a mindset of what they want to and willing to contribute even before their search begins. With a free to play MMO..we will be missing those filters that set the entry bar to the community. There will certainly be a good number of excellent role players, but also mixed with a good amount of the "why the fuck not?" people..that are bored or simply driven by self interest and not wishing to give anything of themselves in return.
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DGM Cygnus
Game Master Group
Assistant Admin / DGM of the USS Adagio
Posts: 2,191
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Post by DGM Cygnus on Sept 1, 2011 10:01:01 GMT -5
But in some cases with our players, the reason they left was not solely due to a lack of fun with the game. In some cases, it was at least partially financial. Once this game goes F2P, anyone and everyone with a computer/internet can play, which means those players who couldn't afford the $15/month can come back. Yes, it requires some commitment, but this is also a game. Games should be fun. If I wanted to worry about commitment, I'd get married or go to work. I dunno about you, but I play games to relax and have fun. Fair point about the game, but community requires the commitment. Otherwise you are simply playing the game. Why even bother with role playing, events, GMs and rules? If one thinks being a Fleet leader or GM is a constant source of non-stop fun..well...it has its moments and news flash, it is work. If people are putting forth the day in and day out commitment to organizing and running and providing content, it is fair for them to expect a certain level of commitment from the players involved. It is a two way street, players have to be willing to ride through the rough spots, communicate and help work together to make it a fun experience for everyone. Otherwise it is a group of fair weather "friends" that will fall apart as soon as the fun stops, which to me seems a waste of everyone's time.
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